Is Vger, from the first Star Trek movie the start of The Borg?
Should have used a more specific subject line
In one of the novels, that was mentioned. I think it was “The Return” by Shatner. Something along the lines that Spock was not assimilated after capture, because he had the collective in his mind already from the mind meld with V-Ger.
Not necessarily that it was the start of the borg, but that the “intelligent machines” who upgraded it were the borg.
No definitive answer, therefore IMHO.
No.
Nothing in the canon indicates that the machines which upgraded V’ger were in any way related to the Borg. The novels are not canon. Additionally, the Borg would not have upgraded the Voyager and sent it on its way. They would have either assimilated the technology or ignored the probe completely. The two entities known to have been “assimilated” by V’ger weren’t really assimilated. Ilea was basically destroyed and re-created in machine form, and Decker merged with the machine. I perceived the Decker/V’ger merging as the joining of co-evals as opposed to the assimilation/subjugation model of the Borg.
Good answer from Otto.
In addition remember that Spock saw the planet where V’ger got ‘upgraded’ and was basically in awe of it. I doubt he would have had that reaction if he’d seen the Borg homeworld or the Borg in any form.
Also, the machine world, being somewhat literal minded, built the HUGE thing that V’ger was based simply on the only command that could fit into its 16K of memory. “Learn all that is learnable, know all that is knowable” (or something to that effect).
I seriously doubt the Borg collective would have gone to all that trouble for what they would have considered crappy technology. They probably would have just melted Voyager down or used it for target practice.
Finally, Voyager had a map pinpointing the location of the Earth. Till “Q Who” in ST:TNG the Borg and humans had no idea the other existed. The Borg, upon capturing Voyager, would probably have sent a Cube to nab the earth. Given our lower level of technology back then subjugation would have been simple.
Of course, if Captain Kirk was around I’m sure he would have fashioned a weapon from rocks and hollow logs on a deserted panet that would make an ultimate Borg killing cannon that they couldn’t adapt to in time to save themselves. Either that or he’d just beam over and start making out with the Borg queen who’d no longer be able to find it in herself to take over the earth.
Otto, Whack-a-Mole, I think you might be misunderstanding the question… I think. It’s not about whether the Borg would’ve assimilated Voyager, it’s asking whether Vger might have actually been the origin of the Borg in the first place. Seems like they had somewhat similar missions, and incorporated technological and biological components…
A similar question that’s thrown around sometimes (but only in books and fanfic) is, was Trelane a relative of Q?
My understanding is that Roddenberry basically said, “Yeah, I supposed V’Ger could have been Borg, sure. It’d make sense.”
Esprix
Q-Squared by Peter David says: “yeah”. Trelane is like a baby Q. (This, of course, is one of the cheap novels, and can be ignored at no peril to you in the Star Trek Universe.)
-Rue.
Coding? I don’ need no STEENK-ing coding!
And while we’re on the subject of Voyager probes, how did that one in ST5 get all the way to the Klingon Empire without ever going to warp? Are the Klingons that close?
And another thing, why were the Cardassians the only ones to have subject peoples? The Klingons and Romulans brag about conquernig the whey out of a whole lot of planets, but you never see the subjugated, disenfranchised, or enslaved losers. The bloody Cardies had the Bajorans for about five minutes before DS9 started, and their empire is considered piddling compared to the Klingon and Romulan Empires.
And how do they go faster than light when Einstein says…oh, wait that’s been covered. 
Oh, you just don’t see them! Who knows, maybe the Klingons conquor lots of planets where the people look like klingons, so you don’t notice the change. Or they just wipe them out. The old 23rd century Klingons would play by those rules. (plus they conquored Organia, if only by saying they conquored until the Organians got sick of their fighting)
Supposedly in the new movie we will see some Romulan stuff, including their other homeworld (which according to advanced reports has been renamed again).
According to spoilers, the question for the Romulans will be addressed in the upcoming movie.
The Klingons killed their gods when they got hacked off. They probably ate their subugate peoples or something equally toughguyesqe.
I think it was pretty much agreed by most people that follow Star Trek to any extent (I am not a die hard fan, but I have watched all the movies and most episodes) that the abomination of a movie that was ST-5 did not exist.
Just how many slaves would you expect to see on a Battlecruiser? What if in the middle of a fight the slaves decided to revolt in the hopes of escape? A warship is probably a bad place to keep a bunch of people who don’t like you very much and warships are mostly what the Feds encounter while galavanting around the galaxy.
On the occasions where a Federation Officer beams down to a homeworld they probably stuff all the slave out of the way to avoid offending delicate and wimpy Federation sensibilities.
Besides…all the enslaved peoples are probably shipped off to some mining hell world at the back end of nowhere anyway and you never see them.
I can’t believe you refered to the Cardassian Union as “piddlin’” compared to the Romulans and the Klingons. If they were capable of fighting the Federation (Though one supposes it was a low-intensity conflict, the * Enterprise* was running around doing TNG stuff) to a standstill, then surely the rank(ed) up there with the other major powers.
The Romulans, of course, are a closed society, but like carnivorousplant said, they will be addressed in the upcoming movie.
The Klingons, well, I wonder how many races the Klingons have actually conquered, seeing as we have never, ever seen any.
The Breen fall under the ‘closed society’ excuse.
And, I suppose we’ll find out about the so-called Sulibian this fall.
Correct. Gene himself disowned the movie.
Did ANYONE hear actually read the original question?
I asked, is V’ger the origin of the Borg?
And answered. Roddenberry said maybe, books say yes, but bottom line, since it didn’t appear on the air, then no (or, we’ll never know, at best).
Esprix
Oh, and that’s the answer to the question, Was V’Ger assimilated by the Borg. Is V’Ger the origin of the Borg? That’s a definite no, as has also been answered in this thread and during the movie First Contact.
Esprix