BTW: people saying what the original movies were supposed to be and what made them great usually get it wrong.
The success of the first Star Wars was Williams’ score, followed by the excellent visuals and finally, the fairy tale quality.
OK, I give – what’s “nuking the fridge”? I have seen Episodes I, II, IV, V, and VI (missed III) … references to a refrigerator are going right over my head.
Maybe the fridge Indiana used to escape the atomic explosion in the Crystal Skull movie?
In Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull, Jones survives a nuclear test blast by hiding in a refrigerator.
It was not a well-received scene.
Thanks **Gothic **& **Miller **… didn’t see Crystal Skull, either. In the context of the OP, I thought it was a Star Wars reference.
I think you’re right. I think the committee will preventing it from stinking on prequel-level ice.
I also think the committee will prevent it from being anything all that great, either.
I think it’s going to be a lot of empty calories, like the Abrams Star Trek movies (only saw the first, which is exactly the kind of movie I’m talking about: flashy, competent, but totally uninspiring and unmemorable; Into Darkness was apparently atrocious).
You have the right to your opinions, but I just want you to know, you’re wrong.
Ontopic: I think Abrams can do a good job with the franchise. I do have a problem with some elements of the ST reboot, but the films are actually fun to watch.
I’m not going to jump in on the hate here, but I am very ambivalent about the new new Star Wars film. To a certain extent, I think the original trilogy gets more praise than it deserves, and the prequel trilogy gets more hate than it deserves. We could argue all day about what made Star Wars great, but it was, and still is, a cultural milestone. I don’t have the memories of them coming out like many older fans do, as I wasn’t even born until after ESB, but I remember growing up and watching them a lot. As such, I still remember them fondly from my youth, having seen them all many times on VHS tape that got heavy wear.
But the thing is, I think at this point, a HUGE amount of what makes Star Wars so great is precisely the nostalgia, and part of why so many fans of the original hated the prequels so much. As others mentioned, plenty of the acting in the original trilogy was wooden too, admittedly not as bad as the prequels, but its even less noticeable when seen through a child’s eyes. And as bad as many seem to think the prequels are, for kids that grew up watching them, like I did the original trilogy, they love them seemingly as much as I did the originals, and they see the originals as boring.
So, it seems to me, like this new trilogy is trying to bridge that gap between these two generations. They want to have some of the visuals from both, focusing more on the prequels, but they really want to hone in on the nostalgia of the originals. And that’s really how the trailer came across to me. I enjoyed it, but SO many of the people I know who loved it, it was largely because “OMG IT’S THE MILLENIUM FALCON AND X-WINGS AND HAN AND CHEWIE!!!” Yes, hearing the classic Star Wars anthem all that definitely gave me a heavy dose of nostalgia, but if I try to control for all of that, I really haven’t seen much that leads me to believe the film will be much more than that.
And as for Abrams, I’m unsure for him as well. It’s clear from his Star Trek reboots that he was essentially using those films as a tryout to direct the new Star Wars films. They feel so much more Star Wars than Star Trek. To that extent, if nothing else, that his tone will be a better fit ought to mean something. But at the same time, knowing how much of a fanboy he is, and his irreverence for the Star Trek franchise, to which Star Wars owes a portion of its success, we might very well end up seeing something that isn’t much more than a high-budget fan film that takes liberties with the mythology that could be considered sacrilege to some other hardcore fans.
And with the new canon as a whole, I haven’t been reading the comics or books, but as it is, I’ve heard some mixed reactions regarding the quality and how they feel about the directions the story is being taken. And this is coming from the super Star Wars nerds who are predisposed to loving anything with that title on it. And further, these Star Wars Anthology films, I’m wondering if they could also be treading dangerous ground for similar reason. For instance, we know the results of the Death Star plans, it’s even less compelling than learning about Darth Vader, and yet that didn’t go well, do they have an interesting enough idea for this to work? Or the planned Boba Fett film, much of what made him so fascinating to fans was his mysterious nature. I really feel like a film focusing on him, while highly desired by many fans will end up being unsatisfying to them and confusing to younger fans.
So, on a whole, they have a surprisingly small target to really appeal to everyone they’re trying to appeal to, and I seriously doubt they’ll hit it dead on. Rather, I suspect they’ll end up erring a little too much toward the nostalgia, and old school fans will enjoy it, but without sufficient development of the new characters, it could quickly lose its steam. And if we’re going to start getting a new film a year, as much as people might contend that comic book films are gonna burn out soon, there’s at least some variety in the types of films and tones we’re getting, and as much as I’m enjoying that, I don’t expect it to last forever. With less variation, and coming off the poorly received prequels, I think Star Wars will be on much thinner ice, and if we get an early disappointment, it could destroy the magic.
Still, after all that, I’m cautiously optimistic. Like with how Disney has handled Marvel, I think they’ve demonstrated competence with managing a large franchise. Even with the missteps in Marvel, they’ve found a formula that works and they’ve adapted to most of the weaknesses to keep people eager for more. To that extent, I think they’re smart enough to not try to over-capitalize on nostalgia and they’ll do their best to walk that thin line. I’ll be expecting a fairly decent and entertaining movie. Even if it’s just a fun popcorn flick, I think I’ll be happy. It doesn’t have to fully repeat the cultural self-awareness that the original trilogy did to work.
I think they’ll apply what they’ve learned from Marvel to create a solid, but not necessarily great, franchise. But I do hope that they’ll give it a break from time to time. Do the new planned films, and maybe continue a few anthologies, possibly even about some of the new characters or in other directions, but take a break from the episodes, don’t just keep pounding them out. I’d also really like to see them do more universe building, not just focus on the Skywalkers and Solos. I’ll be disappointed if most of the new characters are just the kids of them. And they NEED to go into the Old Republic stuff, it’s fascinating.
Thanks for the good post!
An interesting thought experiments is this: How would the prequels have gone over if they were an all-new series in 1999? Would the Phantom Menace have turned a profit and the other two movies been made?
TPM certainly wouldn’t have been hated. It would probably have just been seen as a mediocre sci-fi fantasy for kids, since a young kid was the focus of it. It would have lost a large chunk of its adult audience and probably done about as well as a movie like Spy Kids or something like that. Adults don’t hate on kids movies that much because they have no reason to take them seriously. Of course, kids’ movies can have a reputation as bad movies, but they rarely inspire rage. So I can see kids today enjoying them as kids’ movies–even though chucks of RotS aren’t really appropriate for kids.
The prequels are hated because they are bad movies that were forcibly connected to beloved movies. They don’t share the look, feel, tone, or anything really of the original trilogy. I don’t think the original trilogy is loved because of nostalgia; rather, there is nostalgia because they were loved.
Doesn’t this criticism really come down to Mark Hamill? He is not one of the great thespians, but there are things both good and bad about his performance, and I think he improved as he went along. Other than that, I can’t really think of any bad acting in the OT.
I think the reason for the is obvious: the OT, despite what some people say, were really movies made for adults (though appropriate for children and yes, with lots of merchandising aimed at children). Whereas the prequels are made at a child’s level (though also with boring space politics and some gruesome stuff small kids shouldn’t see).
I think this is accurate.
Indeed. Here’s the thing. We thought, back in the 80s, that the other movies were around the corner. It was just going to go on. And then, without really there being an explanation, it just didn’t happen. When I heard the prequels were being done, I couldn’t believe it. And they dashed people’s hopes, right? But that nostalgia you see, I think a lot of it is that original hunger people had for new Star Wars (real Star Wars) that never went away.
Well, that’s already happened. They’ve thrown out the entire Extended Universe and are creating an entirely new story. I haven’t read any of the books, but I’ve read extensively on Wookiepedia, and some of the EU stuff could have made for some really interesting and intense movies. Sure, a lot of its stupid as hell, too. But I have yet to see a single thing about the upcoming story that looks particularly interesting. Looks like boilerplate eeeevil with a lot of fanservice.
OK, I basically just repeated you.
The whole Boba Fett thing I think has a really simple origin. In 1979ish, before TESB came out, you could cut proofs of purchase from the Kenner action figures and send those in with a few bucks and get the really badass Boba Fett figure (he was also in the Christmas Special as a cartoon! But that’s probably not a big part of his popularity…). I did it myself, and it was thrilling when that figure came in the mail! And tons of kids across the country had that experience. The character also looked good in the movies, though he had a bit part in each. And yeah, the mystery, as you said.
But there is no Boba Fett story (in the movies) except the jackassery of the prequels, and is that anything to build on at all? It’s just gonna be stupid.
I think people will end up finding the nostalgia a bit unsatisfying.
I think Disney is in the process of killing the golden goose by trying to squeeze too many eggs out of it. There are just way too many films planned to sustain people’s interest over the long term. And I’m not a big fan of the films they have already made, either. I thought Ultron was a good example of what’s to come (if we’re lucky): a film that people feel obliged to like in a certain way without really feeling it.
That’s a reasonable position. I’m too burned out on movie cliches and whatnot at this point for that to make me happy. But I will also not despise it like a prequel if it’s at least competent.
Let’s be honest, the original Star Wars series ended the day Leigh Brackett died.
Nonsense. The prequels were perfectly horrible movies.
All the talk about CGI, bad dialogue, Mitochlorians, zero romantic chemistry and Jar Jar are just symptoms of the main problem with the prequels:
At no point do I or anyone else give a shit about Mannequin Skywalker.
Think about this. Because of the Rebellion, Luke Skywalker lost the only family he knew, became a fugitive on his home world, witnessed the genocide of an entire planet (or at least the aftermath), lost his childhood friend (not to mention countless other pilots in battles where he was one of the few survivors), had to chose between completing his Jedi training and possibly losing his best friends, lost his hand, and learned that he was the son of the second most evil man in the Galaxy (and that he came dangerously close to making out with his sister).
All I’m saying is Luke went through a lot of shit and ultimately choose the Light side of the Force.
Anakin went through three films of killing CGI dorkadroids and sulking about Galactic politics. How hard would it have been to make an interesting story about a rising Jedi superstar turned bitter, angry and disillusioned by things he saw or had to do during the Clone Wars?
Mad Max: Fury Road was not “The Originals” but people loved it. So it is possible to do something new in an old franchise without shitting on it.
Yeah, I had always assumed that he gradually turned to the Dark Side. Tasted it. Saw it gave him power in battle. Tried to hide it, push it away, but in the end it was too much for him.
The way he actually turns to the Dark Side in RotS is 100% a 5-year-old’s vision of same. In fact, he doesn’t even really so much fall to the Dark Side as do something stupid and then just agree to join it.
Basically he’s tricked into it because he’s very thick.
Yes, exactly as we’d always imagined Anakin: a total dumbass.
The problem was, everybody not Palpatine in the movies, from Yoda down, were all total dumbasses; all respect to the dude and everything, but it doesn’t really count as Machiavellian genius if your foes all have the brains of eggplants.
Because everything about the Star Wars franchise is already turned into runny shit? There’s no way any new movie can undo or redeem the prequels?
LOL. Yep.
That’s the TL;DR version, yeah.
Exactly. You can’t undo a poo.
The prequels weren’t awful. I’ve seen enough movies to know awful, and they weren’t it.
As for me, the thing wrecking my anticipation is that they’re not releasing it in May. May is when SW movies come out. MAY. If you couldn’t hit May 2015, then fucking delay it until May 2016, fools. SW is a summer franchise, not a winter one.