My SO and I just ended and exciting evening of watching the Star Wars trilogy, and I have a few questions (yes, I’ve seen the movies countless times before, but he mentioned some things and we noticed others that I thought I’d ask)
Is there really a dwarf (sorry if thats not the PC term, but its what we were using in the discussion) inside R2-D2 throughout the movie, controlling the “head” movements?
Obi Wan mentions that Yoda trained him - after “The Phantom Menace”, I thought Qui Gon (sp?) trained him? I’d have to see that movie again (not tonight though), but I’m FARILY sure that was the case. If so, when did Yoda train him? Or was Yoda training him before going to the Council and Qui Gon took over? Or is this just a major inconsistency in the movies?
And what is the whole deal with the Sith? How do they work? Are there only ever 2? I understand that there is another one in “clones” - after Darth Maul - but Palpatine is always one, right? So after the Clones one dies, then Anakin becomes the 2nd one (I imagine thats what this current series is about…). What about after Return of the Jedi? Are there more Sith (does nature just choose one out)? Is it true that there are more episodes on the way to explain that? Is Sith even the right term? And does that mean that only 2 people (Jedis) are ever evil at one time? Or only that 2 are POWERFULLY evil? What’s keeping it down to only 2 at a time? The Force?
I admit, I have not done a web search on this yet, so if its easily found, sorry. But I figured sifting through thousands of websites would be much more annoying than asking here, and hopefully getting a quick, simple answer without too much trouble. And I know that we definitely have Star Wars fans on these boards!
At the least, could someone point me to a webpage that might answer these questions pretty painlessly (i.e. me not having to spend hours reading and finding the correct links? Also meaning, not google.com…I know how that works, Thankyouverymuch.
Mainly it’s an inconsistancy, but we can say Obi Wan was in one of those Junior Jedi classes seen in Attack of the Clones before he was assigned a mentor, and it all works out
Ooh, that’s a kettle of fish. But sticking with the rule of two Sith Lords at a time, we’ve got Ep1=Sidious & Maul; Ep2=Sidious & Dooku; Ep3=Sidious & most likely Dooku then Vader; Ep4-6 Sidious & Vader. Sith Lords are usually Dark Jedi, but Dark Jedi aren’t necessarily Sith Lords. Sith Lords tried to take over the whole Jedi show but due to all the in-fighting, they kept destroying themselves. Finally, they figured two was the proper number they could have without killing each other.
Not throughout the movie, no. There were times when they put a little motor inside Artoo to let him roll around. But, yes, Kenny Baker is the actor that “played” R2-D2.
Yoda trained Obi-Wan when he was a child… after he was through with “basic training”, he was taken under Qui-Gon’s wing as a padawan (Lucasspeak for “apprentice”) for field training.
There’s a scene in AOTC that shows Yoda training a whole class of children… presumably, he was the one who normally trained the young’uns since he was less threatening… or something.
There are only two sith lords at a time. However there are many people on the darkside who harness the force. Darth Vaders imperial guard , you know the guys all in red , are all students of the force.
Easiest answer that fits all the on-screen evidence? Obi Wan is a habitual liar…“from a…certain…point of view”
You can try to twist his on-screen words and actions to try to justify the fact that what he says rarely matches the facts, but it simply makes more sense if you just assume that every time he opens his mouth, a lie will emerge.
And the Sith “There’s always two” thing? Someone in another thread suggested that it meant that one master and one apprentice always hang around in pairs, (like little old ladies going to the bathroom together), unlike the Jedi who have one teacher (Yoda) to a dozen or two baby Jedi) not that there were only two of them in the universe. I thought that made a lot of sense.
See, I always figured the reason the Emperor and Darth Vader worked together wasn’t for some simple “There can be only Two” rule, but because, well, they KILLED EVERYONE ELSE OFF!!! Or, at least they thought they did. If the whole “only two” rule applied there, then why was Vader so willing to bring Luke on board? If he did, he must have known the Emperer would just toss him to the wind.
Again, I think it’s one of those afterthougt points Lucas threw in without really thinking too much about. There are definitely more “dark Jedi” out there, so just limiting it to 2 is kind of silly.
I had always understood it to be: “Sith do not work alone, or work in pairs.”
ATOC did not explain how long Terranous had been working with Sidious. He might have been in the bad guy loop prior to Mauls Death.
10 years is a long time and Terranous (a former Jedi) could have been turned to the dark side after Mauls death. I do not know.
I prefer the “Sith never work alone always in pairs” theory.
It makes RotJ more plausable.
BTW did anyone notice there as an emperial guard in ATOC?
I am almost sure I saw one in the background in the scene where
everyone is in Palapitines Office discussing the attack aimed the lovely senator from Naboo.
According to starwars.com (whose validity as canon can probably be debated - I’ll leave that to others), the “only two Sith” thing is not an absolute property of the dark side, or anything like that. It’s more like a management directive that nobody has countermanded in a long time, and it’s now part of the “corporate culture.”
Thanks for the answers everyone! I haven’t yet seen attack of the clones (maybe in the next week or so - today we see Spiderman :)), so I don’t really know about any of the discussion pertaining to that, but I don’t think TOO much was spoiled about it
I feel bad for Kenny Baker - in my drunken state last night (yes, it was a drunken Star Wars marathon) I kept imagining stuffing dwarves into garbage cans and telling them to fiddle with the lid for a while…it just seemed so…so…CRUEL! And I couldn’t imagine why they didn’t just use remote control or something (surely it had been invented by then!). But if it seems its a bit of both…well, I suppose he climbed in there willingly, and I shouldn’t feel too bad about it
As for the rest, thanks again. Feel free to keep discussing it - I’ll likely be back!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by El Elvis Rojo *
**See, I always figured the reason the Emperor and Darth Vader worked together wasn’t for some simple “There can be only Two” rule, but because, well, they KILLED EVERYONE ELSE OFF!!! Or, at least they thought they did. If the whole “only two” rule applied there, then why was Vader so willing to bring Luke on board? If he did, he must have known the Emperer would just toss him to the wind.
[QUOTE]
Part of the Sith master/apprentice relationship is that they work in a mutual-yet-adversarial relationship. They’re basically using each other to promote their own goals, until one gets to conquer the other. In other words, Sidious needs an apprentice to act as his “hand,” so he’s got to train someone who’ll be a highly effective Sith…yet always less powerful than Sidious himself. Failing that, he can toss his apprentice aside and take on a new one. The apprentice gets the benefit of tremendous Sith training, but always has to keep an eye on his master slipping up so he can take his place.
Hence, we saw Dooku/Tyranus make the same offer to Obi-Wan that Vader made to Luke: “Join me, and together we can destroy the Sith!” or somesuch, read: “Join me, and I get to be the Sith Lord and you can be my apprentice.”
Vader AND Palpatine have the same goal in mind with Luke in Episode V-VI. Vader wants to become the master, take Luke as his apprentice, and overthrow Palpatine. Palpatine sees Vader as old, worn-out and dying (there’s a Sith calling the kettle black) and wants Luke to take his place…as the apprentice.
There were hints of this with Maul, by the way. The new Essential Guide to characters indicates that although Maul didn’t have a great many aspirations to be the new master, he did occassionally consider killing Sidious. And when Maul was killed, apparently Sidious didn’t pay it much mind: he tossed Maul aside like a broken weapon (which is sad, since he raised Maul from a baby).
Yup, I remember they were in the Emperor’s chamber on the “New” Death Star in RotJ. I’ve heard that they are the Emperor’s personal bodyguards, thou I thought Vadar kinda filled that slot to an extent. The closest analogy I could think of would be that they were like the “Death’s Head” SS Nazi soldiers.
Through the past two films and the rule of there only being 2 siths at any time since the great hoo-haw of there being a bunch wanting to kill the other, I thought of this: what is the source of this concept? For us as viewers directly, it is from the Jedi. Considering that they thought they were extinct prior to Darth Maul popping up, do they really know what they are talking about for the Sith of today (today being, of course, a long, long time ago)? I would not be suprised in the slightest if Lucas says in Ep. 3 that Tyrannus/Dookula had been an apprentice to Sideous before Maul was killed in TPM. I mean, Maul had been an apprentice all his life, and while he was a very able swordsman, you never saw him shooting out lightning bolts. Sure, Dookula was a Jedi prior to being a Sith and thus had a sizable control of the Force before joining Sideous, but lightning was only displayed by the Empereor before hand, and I think that shows a certain level of degree in Dookula’s power, not of the Force, but of the Dark Side. Therefore I postulate that the Emperor and Vader trying to woo Luke in ESB and RotJ is not necessarily out of character for them, while it would be for earlier, not-in-charge-of-the-frickin’-galaxy Sith. So maybe, just maybe, Sideous threw aside the “only two” rule and got 20-30 years in charge of everything for it.
Of course, that doesn’t mean he let the apprentices know about each other…
Artoo was only operated by Kenny Baker for the jiggling and walking bits. In AOTC Kenny is credited, but only appears in one scene that’s probably been cut. Artoo is normally radio controlled (there’s even a fully talking beeping version), and now is CG’d to do the tough stuff.
Why would Obi Wan mention Qui Gon to Luke if Qui Gon has been dead for 30 years? Obviously the only choice was to mention Yoda, who trains ALL Jedi up to Padawan level. Yoda therefore did instruct Obi Wan.
The Sith thing has been adequately explained. No more then two so it’s never two against one. Considering the nature of Sith-ness is greed and violence, it’s a reasonably good argument against multiple Sith to be wary of.
Artoo was only operated by Kenny Baker for the jiggling and walking bits. In AOTC Kenny is credited, but only appears in one scene that’s probably been cut. Artoo is normally radio controlled (there’s even a fully talking beeping version), and now is CG’d to do the tough stuff.
Why would Obi Wan mention Qui Gon to Luke if Qui Gon has been dead for 30 years? Obviously the only choice was to mention Yoda, who trains ALL Jedi up to Padawan level. Yoda therefore did instruct Obi Wan.
The Sith thing has been adequately explained. No more then two so it’s never two against one. Considering the nature of Sith-ness is greed and violence, it’s a reasonably good argument against multiple Sith to be wary of.
