Star Wars: The Last Jedi - seen it thread

I think this misses the point. It’s not that Luke died…it’s that he surrendered himself to the Living Force. He’s been a broken man for a long time at that point, sitting on his island, occasionally kicking porgs off cliffs - and wondering how they can fly - and he’s just tired. He knows he screwed up massively and regrets it. He’s done his part in bailing out the resistance and doesn’t feel he’s up for more.

It’s not like his body is sitting there on that rock. He stared at twin suns, made his peace and moved on to his next stage of existence. Good for him. How much more can be asked of him?

I’m not some Star Wars expert here. But Luke didn’t just up and die whilst sitting in the Lotus position overlooking the breakers.

He died there having just projecting himself over god-knows what distance to appear 100% genuine in the bright sun against an adversary. It was a move he likely knew could/ would kill him and decided it was worth it. He over-extended.

I liked Scott Manley’s fanwank on it.

It was the use of the tracking device that made it possible, somehow making the ship be vulnerable, which explains both why this maneuver is not used often, and also explains why hyperspace trackers are not used often as well.

Saw it again and I think I was just mentally adding more time between the films because that is what was logical given the new status quo but others who said it is a just a few weeks are probably correct (even though that makes little sense).

On my second viewing I think the draggy parts effected me more but I still very much like it, especially the aspects many online folks are hating (Snoke and Rey’s history for example).

I do wonder where the story goes from here and that’s a good thing.

I’ll admit that I felt a bit “fooled” by that part of the film. when they were building the conflict between Poe Dameron and Admiral Holdo, I was convinced it would lead to Holdo being exposed as a mole; the “Hyperspace tracking” was going to be a ruse and it was actually Holdo giving away their position to the First Order.

I don’t see what’s to hate about Snoke. even on earth we still see examples of “live by the sword, die by the sword.”

this is definitely a “house-cleaning” release where they make a clean break from the original cast. plus the repeated assertion that “the old ways must die.” Hopefully they don’t screw it up from here on out.

I’d say this is probably the best time ever to use the phrase “Hope in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.”

I don’t dislike JJ Abrams, but even Stephen fucking Spielberg couldn’t pull the dumpster fire that was TLJ back into anything worth watching in the last movie.

I didn’t care that Snoke died, but I didn’t feel impacted by it either. He wasn’t around long enough or had enough impact in his scenes to feel as though him dying was especially meaningful. His appearance in the first movie was via fuzzy hologram, right? I didn’t have any connection to his relevance besides being told “This is one bad dude, trust me”.

Really looking forward to seeing it a second time (probably as soon as I get back from a vacation abroad). Thinking back, it might have been the absolute most fun I’ve ever had at a movie. Which says a lot about how I felt about the movie itself, but even more about how big a part of my life Star Wars has been. I saw RotJ in the theater as a toddler, and I can’t remember a time in my life in which I didn’t frequently play games or with toys based on, read about, or think about, Star Wars.

I just saw it for the second time yesterday. I went last Monday after avoiding all reviews and reactions, or at least as much as I could without boycotting all social media. I really loved it. Had a great time, and left excited for what’s to come in episode 9.

Then I read this thread, and saw all about the backlash and the subset of people who seemed to really hate it. I read all of the criticisms and while I can’t disagree with every negative point made, I just didn’t see how anyone could feel that strongly negative about it.

I had plans to go with my family yesterday, so I went in with all of the criticisms in mind and tried to have a totally open mind and really see it for what it was without any sort of Star Wars colored glasses, but I was right the first time. I really loved it just as much the second time. I enjoyed very much anticipating the audience reactions to certain scenes as they approached. I actually feel sorry for those that seemingly can’t enjoy Star Wars anymore. Must be kind of depressing.

hardcore fans of anything tend to feel they “own” whatever it is they’re fans of, and if it doesn’t turn out to be what they were expecting they hate it.

and make sure everyone knows how much they hate it.

People keep saying that, but it’s just deflection. I am not a hardcore Star Wars fan. I loved the first movie (what Lucas retconned into being “Star Wars IV”) and Empire, really liked Jedi and couldn’t stand the prequels. The prequels actually cheapened the original trilogy for me by association and I haven’t really been a “fanboy” since I was in my early 20s. I liked the Force Awakens, though it had problems; it was entertaining. So no, I’m not a fanboy, not a hardcore fan, just a casual Star Wars fan mostly for nostalgia.
What I am a hardcore fan of is good writing. I’m a fan of stories that make sense, that are internally consistent.

Holdo not explaining the plan: I fanwank this as her, because of the lightspeed tracking, believing it possible there was a mole who would divulge the plan to the enemy. I wish I had any confidence this is what the writer had in mind but… independently it makes some sense.

The ramming of Snoke’s ship: Maybe this only worked because Snoke’s shields were down (we know they were because the surface of his ship was getting hit by lasers previously). In the normal course of events, shields would be up and ramming would be on no one’s mind. Hubris and confusion led to the Snoke ship not anticipating the possibility, and to the Resistance people who were not Holdo to not expect it.

Rose saving Finn: Yeah, that was dumb.

Stories that makes sense and are internally consistent? What Star Wars movies are you talking about? Look I love the original trilogy also, I saw ROTJ in the theater when I was 5, I’ve seen all three movies more times than I can count, but internally consistent? Stories that make sense?

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-original-trilogy-plot-holes/

I think that people are not viewing the new Star Wars in the same light as they originally viewed the original trilogy. Lots of things in the OT do not make sense and contradict other parts of the OT. We just chose not to worry about those things and love the movies for what they were. Now with these new ones, many are forgetting about that and are trying to pick them apart with a scrutiny that the original films would not fare very well under themselves.

It certainly could be done, they could have me back on board 10 minutes into the next movie if the script and execution were good enough. But I’m thinking it will be somewhere in the middle like TFA, better than TLJ but worse than the original trilogy.

It is quite possible that the only person on the ship who did not know the plan was Poe.

But seriously, it probably was known amongst senior staff, which he no longer was.

I forget, how did the codebreaker know about the plan?

It depends, she was a mechanic, she could have known that his attack on it wouldn’t have done any good, in that case, she did right.

But she should have said something along those lines, rather than talk about saving people being the way to win the war.

Poe whined about it to Finn over the comms. So that is completely on those two being idiots.
Holdo should still have told Poe that there *was *a plan…not the details, just the existence of a plan, which is all he was begging her for. It made no sense to stonewall him.
That would have bumped Finn’s plan from only-route-to-survival to risky-but-reasonable-backup-plan.

I dunno. While I get what you’re saying, and I may be influenced by his subsequent actions, it seems like telling Poe anything was going to end up with him blabbing it instantly with zero caution. I could see completely stonewalling someone who is not actually in the chain of command and is not behaving in a precisely reliable way.

I saw the first movie when I was four and vividly remember the trash compactor scene. I had the toys, lost everyone’s guns in the backyard garden, mailed off for that exclusive accessories kit, saw the other trilogy movies and… That was it. I was never a super fan, I was just into it back when I was a kid in the '70s and '80s. I saw the prequels and didn’t much enjoy them but oh well. They didn’t “ruin” Star Wars for me or anything. I don’t feel or want any ownership over the franchise. I also don’t feel obligated to look past flaws just because it’s Star Wars.

The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi were watchable and somewhat entertaining but nothing great. Rogue One was considerably better although you go into it knowing that the entire cast is disposable. So I don’t think it’s that I can’t enjoy Star Wars flicks but I certainly have a higher standard than when I was in preschool. I don’t think that being more sophisticated than my four year old self is much to pity :smiley:

I am on the opposite side of this one. I think Abrams may be a competent director* but he thinks making a bunch of mysteries with no real solution planned out is a good idea and making things just like previous movies BUT MOAR (Starkiller Base, Snoke, etc.). I think Johnson has a more artistic approach with his directing and wanted to subvert expectations while still delivering a powerful movie. There are some nitpicky stuff in TLJ but this one was streets ahead of Force Awakens.

I saw the movie on Friday with my 9-year-old daughter - both of us loved it. I didn’t have any particular expectations – having largely avoided spoilers for once – but it was fun and felt like Star Wars to me, which is all I really wanted. The humor felt like it was dialed up a bit more than most Star Wars movies – more like an Avengers movie in that respect. But that style of humor – mostly driven by the characters being wise-asses, or occasionally klutzes – didn’t feel out of place to me, in contrast to the farting animal or two-headed race commentator from Episode I.

In general, I’ve realized that silliness in a Star Wars movie is OK with me, as long as it’s either cute or awesome. Porgs, much like the Ewoks, are silly but cute (incredibly cute, actually), so that’s cool. In contrast, Gungans are silly but annoying and not cute. The non-sensical physics (and at times, logic) of the space battles was silly in a different way, but not atypical of a Star Wars movie, plus it gave us some awesome scenes (especially the audio-cuts-out hyperdrive suicide run), so that’s also cool with me. What is Star Wars about, if not things blowing up in ridiculous but awesome ways, in space? :slight_smile: (And I’m not someone who generally likes “things blow up” movies – I have no interest in, say, whatever the latest Michael Bay film is – but Star Wars has always had a way of blowing things up with style, and this movie lived up to that.)

And yeah, it would have been cool if Leia were the one piloting the ship instead of Vice Admiral Purple-Hair (Hodor, was it?), but they didn’t know Carrie Fisher was going to die, and evidently chose not to re-edit her scenes when she did. (I don’t actually think it would have been that hard to re-edit her scenes to put her at the controls, if they had wanted to, especially if they re-filmed a little of Hodor’s dialogue.) I thought Fisher and Mark Hamill were both great in this, as were the younger stars.

Given Fisher’s passing, I had actually expected them to re-edit the movie to kill off Leia, which meant I was constantly waiting for it to happen in all her scenes. The part where she saves herself with the force probably worked better for me as a result – otherwise I think it would have seemed like a bit of a deus ex machina, even though we knew her father and brother were Jedi. When she was floating in space, my daughter whispered to me “Is she dead?” and I started to tell her “yes,” and then was totally caught by surprise when she wasn’t.

The bit where Luke dies, which I think someone above said was unexplained, was actually foreshadowed when Kylo Ren said to Rey “You can’t be doing this yourself [force projecting across interstellar distances], the strain would kill you”. And Luke had a good send off, so no complaints there.

They fixed one thing that bothered me in The Force Awakens, too: that Kylo got beaten by a totally untrained Rey, which made it hard to take him seriously as a threat. Snoke tells him, roughly, “And you were so upset about having to kill your father that you got beaten by an untrained novice?”

One bit that bothered me a little at the time (even though it was funny), but which I’m retro-actively un-bothered about upon learning what I missed, was the bit where Yoda more-or-less said: “Yeah, those were boring books anyway, and Rey [with basically no training] probably already knows all that stuff, so lets burn it down.” But it turns out there was a shot I totally missed of those books on board the Falcon, meaning Yoda’s “Rey already has the knowledge she needs from them” (I forget the actual line), was just him epically trolling Luke while speaking the literal truth – I love it! :slight_smile:

Did I mention how cute the Porgs were? Like penguin guinea pigs with giant cartoon eyes. As soon as Disney’s genetic engineering department figures out how to make one I can take home as a pet, they can have all my money.