[QUOTE=Argent Towers]
I don’t know if this is controversial or not, but Li’l Pluck is my new favorite Doper.
Sorry FormerMarineGuy.
[/QUOTE]
Awww, shucks. :o Thanks, man, but I’m sure that there’s enough room in your heart for FormerMarineGuy, me, and anyone else who strkes your fancy. 
[QUOTE=pool]
Well I figured it would be better to let you get the ball rolling so to speak rather than for me to make an assumption about what you really meant. Though the OP is supposed to be about beliefs, sometimes it is difficult on a messageboard to discern whether someone is being completely serious or sarcastic. So explain to me what these strong social sanctions would be in lieu of being shot and beaten.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, okay, I think I understand.
And I agree–message boards are very poor conductors of vocal inflection and facial cues, so it can sometimes be difficult to figure out where someone’s coming from.
I think a social sanction can be as simple as someone–anyone–saying, “Hey, why are you using that kind of language?” I’ve been in social situations where someone says something that is not considered kosher by me and several other people (but which is prevalent enough in society that the filter between the offender’s brain and mouth don’t kick into gear), and we’re throwing furtive glances in each other’s direction, wondering who’s going to be the one to say something.
Of course, in many instances, no one says anything. This can be for any number of reasons–we don’t know how the offender will react (especially if you don’t the person, e.g., a stranger on the subway), we don’t know if other people will have our back, etc.–and it’s unfortunate, because I think that just calling a person out for his/her behavior can have an effect, at least in that moment, if not going forward.
I think that social sanctions can also be organized affairs. Take, for instance, the case of certain lyrics in hip-hop music. In the recent past, the journalist Stanley Crouch and entitities like “Essence Magazine” have taken to task artists who use minstel-like, degrading, misogyinistic, and homophobic lyrics. Or, years ago in Philadelphia, C. Delores Tucker (I think she died maybe a couple of years ago or so) began getting people together to picket retailers that sold music with objectionable lyrics. Did it amount to anything? I don’t recall right now, but perhaps it got someone to think about what they were listening to. I actually don’t know that this is a particularly effective way of doing this kind of thing (i.e., publicly opposing something can give it more prominence), but at any rate, it counts as something of a social sanction.
Ideally, though, parents would talk to their children (and, hell, maybe adults could talk to other adults) about the messages inherent in certain objectional music/actions. Or perhaps it takes something else.
When I was about ten years old, my mother, brother, and I were visiting an aunt and some my cousins, and we got to talking about something, and I, without thinking, used a phrase which was common at the time among some black people: faster than ten niggers running. Well, before I even got to the word “running,” my mother’s open hand had connected with my mouth. Message received. Loud and clear. (My mother was more of a get-in-your-face-verbally kind of mother than anything, so for her to actually strike you spoke volumes.)
Now, not that *that * was the best way of handling it, but I certainly understand her in-the-moment, visceral reaction, given that (a) she just *really * doesn’t like that word, and (b) she came of age in the Jim Crow South, and so she understood that word to be poison.
Coupled with that, though, for me, there was also a passive social sanction. When I was growing up in the 70’s and 80’s, I spent enough time with older black people (I was a freaky kid–I always preferred the company of older people to that of my own peers), especially whenever I was back home in South Carolina, and just by being around them, I got a strong sense of their dignity (despite god knows what they went through), their values, and what, for the most part, was acceptable and unacceptable behavior. And using words like “nigger” (or what would later become “niggah”) in public (or even privately) was not an acceptable behavior. Not to mention a whole list of other things that you kind of knew that you shouldn’t do.
Mind you, I also understood that being gay was not acceptable. But being gay, of course, is an entirely different creature. And thank goodness, anyway, that people’s thinking evolves over time. I just don’t believe that our thinking should evolve to the point where it becomes normalized or acceptable for blacks to toss around willy-nilly a word, the express purpose of which was to sear worthlessness or “less than” into our very souls.
I realize that I’ve rambled here (for which I apologize), but I hope this answers your question.
[QUOTE=Abe Babe]
I believe all foreigners living abroad should be taxed by the US government.
[/QUOTE]
Abe Babe, if you’re still around, could you clarify this? Because no matter how I parse it, it’s just wrong.
Non-US citizens not living in the US should pay taxes to the US government? There’s not enough tinfoil in the world to come up with a justification for that.
People from overseas living in the US should be taxed by the US government? Despite what one may hear on talk radio, they are, to the exact same degree as US citizens are.
US citizens living overseas should be taxed by the US government? We are. There’s an exemption for up to about US$80,000 (if someone knows the exact figure, please post), but above that we have to pay. And even below that, we have to file a return every year. And that exemption only covers income earned outside the US; I still pay taxes on income earned inside the US. Why the exemption? because just like foreigners living in the US, I pay full taxes to the Japanese government: local, state, national, sales, excise, property, etc., just like all the Japanese citizens around me (and Japanese citizens living in the US get the same exemption on Japanese taxes). And just like Sleel said, if I suddenly had my tax bill doubled by paying in full to both countries, I’d be looking over my shoulder at the poverty line. This exemption is because of a agreement worked out by the Japanese and American governments, and not every country has it (Americans living in Hong Kong, from what I’ve heard, do get double-taxed). Considering the level of services I get from the US v. Japan, the day they get rid of that exemption is the day I hand in my passport.
Controversial beliefs of my own? I honestly don’t think it’s that controversial, but here goes:
Government is a summoned demon: it performs a task that the summoner (us) can’t do by on his own, but it never stops want to break through its boundaries and gain greater control, eventually enslaving us. To do so, it will flatter us, scare us, bribe us, distract us, threaten us, or simply try to force its way through. Though it may do useful things, we must never stop challenging it, questioning it, shrinking it and confining it.
Goodness. Quite the spectrum of opinions here.
I believe:
That abortion should be legal until the third trimester, and then only legal if there is risk to the mother for the pregnancy to continue OR there is evidence that the fetus is not viable.
That doctors who make women deliver dead fetuses/stillbirths are horrible. To endure labor for that-how cruel.
That C-secxns are performed way too often and for convenience, not safety.
That gas prices are manipulated for political reasons at times.
That W and Co did not plan 9/11, but they sure thanked god that it happened-and they’ve politicized it ever since.
That the American public couldn’t get more stupid if it tried. We are our own worst enemies-fixated on American Idol and Lost instead of stuff that really matters.
That Girl Scouts changed for the worse about 20 years ago, and what they call “camping” we called “luxury living”.
That Boy Scouts should not discriminate against homosexuals–or GS either, but no-one seems to get their knickers in a twist about lesbian GS.
That people should be penalized for extravagant enerygy use-some sort of exorbitant tax on SUVs, luxury cars, pick up trucks etc. The well known gas guzzlers. And tax breaks should be given to hybrids and other more fuel efficent vehicles.
That bilingual education actually slows literacy down in children and should not be used.
that organized religion is one of the biggest problems in modern society. And with whoever upthread said that it was Paul who talked up Jesus’ teachings; Jesus’ message wasn’t quite polished before he died. He did not return from the dead, IMO.
That Coke is not better than Pepsi.
That I could go on and on–this thread, if not taken too seriously, is actually fun and amazingly cathartic.
I can’t speak for the others, but the whole tax foreigners living abroad is an old stand up joke. Sorry I can’t remember the comedian. (Carlin? Lehrer?–it goes back to the 60s or 70s).
And to that thought, I say hell, yeah! 
[QUOTE=cckerberos]
I don’t know the details of your situation, but I paid no money in taxes during my first 2 years living in Japan since my income was exempt thanks to the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion. And if you leave Japan you can apply for a refund for the money you’ve paid into the pension fund.
[/QUOTE]
That’s strictly a temporary thing, and I think it’s there to encourage at least some emigration despite the serious up-front costs of relocating for normal people. You still have to pay taxes on any income earned in the US prior to leaving, and the time limit for the exemption is strictly defined and requires some amount of hoop-jumping. After that time runs out, you will be paying Japanese taxes. Any debts you incur in the US are not exempt, particularly student loans, and any annual income above $75,000 is not exempt at all; you pay full taxes even during the first two years.
When you apply for the pension fund you must have left Japan permanently. That could be a problem if you have any ties to Japan. After you leave you only get a partial refund of the money you paid in over the first 3 years, and any money paid in after that three years is absolutely non-refundable. It’s the stick part of, “stay for a while and share your expertise/unique knowledge, now please get the #^¢* out.” I would get the equivalent of about 75% of a month’s pay for each of the first three years I was here. I believe you can appeal for a return of the taxes levied against the lump-sum payout (around 20%) but it requires having an agent in Japan who will fill out paperwork and agree to transfer the money to you in the US.
In my case, there’s a possibility that, since I was injured on the job, a claim was made against my pension. The status of that is still unclear, but if that’s the case, I get nothing back, no matter how small the claim was. Even if I can get the refund money back, I still lose (at this point) the additional 3+ years worth of pension that I’ve paid and I will never be able to claim that, and that’s money that I didn’t have for either paying debts or investing over the X number of years that they were holding it.
I’m not absolutely sure about this, but by claiming the refund I may even be giving up any future claim against the national pension. In the very unlikely event that I’m still in Japan when I’m 60 and become eligible for payout, I wouldn’t get anything due to that technicality.
The temporary tax exemption and partial pension refund doesn’t help much if you’re in Japan indefinitely, like me, and you will not be able to avoid paying taxes in at least one country, no matter what. The fact remains that taxing Americans living abroad would be unfairly repressive for the vast majority of Americans living overseas. Long-term expatriates would have to consider either returning to the US permanently, uprooting their families and disrupting whatever ties they had abroad; or they would have to renounce US citizenship, which they would probably not have contemplated doing in other circumstances.
I know that I never want to give up my citizenship. I am proud of being an American despite all the fuck-ups I’ve seen in recent years. Still, double taxation would put me in a very awkward position and would force me to either move back without time to prepare and just drop everything I’ve been doing here over 6+ years, or make the jump to being a Japanese citizen. And I could forget about doing something like starting up a business that uses some of what I’ve learned in Japan, as I’ve been working on for the last year or so. That would be stupid if I were going to be taxed so heavily on any income earned in Japan. So much for being a small-business owner. Guess only the big-boy multinationals get to play that game.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with burning the US flag (or any other) in protest.
I think “under God” should be removed from the pledge and the word “God” removed from US money.
I don’t think golf is a sport.
I think absinthe should be legal in the states.
The economic sanctions on cuba should be lifted.
I think the government should have planted WMD’s in Iraq to save face (not that I necessarily agree with the war), but they just look silly now.
I think charter schools are a good idea.
Basketball would be cooler if fewer fouls were called.
I think earth will get hit by a huge asteroid long before we start noticing the effects of global warming.
[QUOTE=biometricks]
I think earth will get hit by a huge asteroid long before we start noticing the effects of global warming.
[/QUOTE]
Unless we were hit by an asteroid twenty-odd years ago, I’d have to say you’re out of luck on this one.
I don’t consider baseball a sport. An activity to be sure, but it’s not a sport.
I believe immigration should be strictly regulated and that western countries should not be obligated to accept any ayslum seekers. Ever.
I believe all asylum seekers should be processed outside of the western world. It’s reduce most if not all of the claims.
I believe that investment and free trade are the key to limiting immigration and improving the world.
Birth control is a good thing. Particularly for countries that can ill-afford more and more citizens.
I believe Roy Keane was a better player than Patrick Viera, Lampard, and a team of 11 Beckhams.
[QUOTE=AHunter3]
Really? What gives you the idea he’s happy about it? 
[/QUOTE]
I JUST saw this! Good one!
[QUOTE=Li’l Pluck]
As to your question of “mainstream” Jews considering atheist Jews to be Jews, I guess it depends on who you ask. There is so much variance, though, within Jewish practice (not necessarily officially sanctioned, but certainly on an individual level), that I don’t know that many Jews would have a big issue with this.
.
[/QUOTE]
I have at least a dozen friends and family members who would punch you in the face if you told them they weren’t Jewish, just because they don’t happen to believe in God. By and large, the Israeli Jewish mainstream does not consider religion a prerequisite for being Jewish, which is one way (perhaps the main way) it differs from its American counterpart).
And yeah, the Orthodox establishment here sucks. My wife and I married abroad for that very reason, even though we could have tied the knot in Israel.
I would like to shoot everyone that doesent believe in what i believe in.
•That Ted Kaczynski’s manifesto contains a truly depressing amount of valid points about politics, psychology, and human society.
•I think liberals have as much business writing gun control laws as conservatives do writing “obscenity” laws. (Or as much business as a Khrushchev had at planning a national agriculture program.)
•Think of the muslim world as the forehead of a teenager, oily and supple, and terrorists and Islamist extremism as pimples that have yet to come to a head. Festering, almost invisible, and as is, impossible to get at without flaying. Now, think of the War in Iraq as being a damp, hot, washcloth pressed against that forehead. Well, all by themselves, the pus starts to rise to the surface, forming heads you can pop. If you get the cloth hot enough, a good number of them will burst on the washcloth itself, and you won’t even have to look in the mirror to get them. (Though you might scald your hand, or ruin the washcloth. Which may or may not be a problem, depending on your pain threshold, or what you want to use the washcloth for afterwards.) You keep the process going until either the teenager’s forehead grows up past the oily, pimply stage; or you finally decide “to hell with it,” burn down to the dermis with a chemical peel, and just wear makeup and/or a hat.
That was the best analogy I could come up with.
•Speaking of which, I had a lovely one about comparing the various points in the political spectrum to dog breeds (leftists being toy poodles, on one end, psychos and barbarians being wolves, on the other, and conservatives something like St. Bernards or the like.), and a warning about the consequences of overspecialization—(poodles outbreed wolves and working dogs, they survive. Poodles only outbreed working dogs: 24-hour wolf buffet.)—but I’m tired and hungary and I don’t think anyone’ll care, anyway, so I’ll leave off on expounding it poetically.
Rancloth, im loading my shotgun.
[QUOTE=Sublight]
Abe Babe, if you’re still around, could you clarify this? Because no matter how I parse it, it’s just wrong.
Non-US citizens not living in the US should pay taxes to the US government? There’s not enough tinfoil in the world to come up with a justification for that.
[/QUOTE]
He doesn’t seem to be around, but I did meet some Americans who tossed that jewel my way. Their reasoning was along the lines of “we’re protecting them, teaching them, feeding them, so they oughta pay us back.” I figured out that my response needed to include only small words, to avoid overloading their brains, so I asked them whether they thought that American soldiers stationed in Spain should not be admitted into Spanish hospitals and their stay covered by Spanish social security… maybe next time an American soldier’s wife in Torrejón has a kid, these people would gladly cover all medical expenses involved, yes? You know, instead of my taxes to the Spanish government doing it?
The amount of tinfoil, indeed. (And yes, I know the soldiers get US Army medical coverage as well, but in many cases they, and specially any relocated civilian dependents are cared for by “local” doctors; SS later tries to charge the US for it - basically I thought these people would understand this line of reasoning more rapidly than other like “you ain’t ever fed ME, bubba”)
I belive that some people exist soley as warnings to other people, sign posts on the road to success.
Or the road to hell.
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot]
This is more of an aside to BobLibDem and What Exit?, but the Holocaust was not 6,000,000 dead. That’s the number of Jews that were killed. Hitler also rounded up gypsies, homosexuals, Communists, homeless, retarded, deformed, etc. I think the total count for the concentration camps (not even war casualties) is something like 11,000,000 people.
[/QUOTE]
Thank you, I did not have the numbers, but I knew it was sadly more than Six million.
[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
this thread, if not taken too seriously, is actually fun and amazingly cathartic.
[/QUOTE]
Yes it is and I agree with most of what you said.
Jim
[QUOTE=matt_mcl]
I believe you are flat-arsed fucking wrong in every way, shape and form (on this issue)