Or getting your ass kicked by you oh so enlightened but patriotic dammit! classmates.
of course, but this was nothing like that. This was a part time, assistant coach. This was not the head coach and it wasn’t during the game. A more apt analogy would be if a high school teacher’s aid said, “hey, after school, I’ll be praying in the back parking lot if anyone else is interested.” I mean look, details matter here a lot, but everything I’ve read about the case does not seem to present a scenario even close to what you describe. And the court specifically called this distinction out as to why it made it’s decision. What you describe above would clearly be not allowed.
It started with him praying by himself. It only got to be a court case after numerous people joined him. Did this happen because he made a spectacle of it? Maybe, partly. But it was still entirely voluntary on the participant’s part.
Yes–but a right that you don’t know you can exercise isn’t much of a right at all, and often teachers don’t even know about the right to opt out, and the direction given is generally, “Please stand for Pledge of Allegiance,” followed by its recitation.
When I was in charge of a classroom (as opposed to my current position as a specialist), during the first week of school I’d always go over the pledge with students. When we talked about the word “liberty,” I’d explain that one of the freedoms they have in our country is to choose whether or not to say the pledge, and I’d talk about what such choices would look like in my room (i.e., if you choose not to say the pledge, you sit quietly without distracting your peers; and if you choose to say it, you do so without pressuring your peers into joining you).
The law doesn’t provide for teachers to choose to opt out, but I suspect that if it came to a court case, the law would side with teachers who declined to say the pledge, as long as they offered the opportunity to students.
I stopped saying the Pledge in middle school because of the “under God” part. I was aware of my rights West Virginia v Barnette, but that didn’t stop some teachers (especially subs) from calljng me out trying to argue with me. Ironically by high school I discovered acting indignant and claiming it was idolatry instead of politly bringing up civil rights got a better response. No argument, no follow up questions, some even got apologitic.
I stopped upon noticing the part where I got asked to pledge allegiance to a flag.
My high school required standing quietly but didn’t require saying the pledge or putting your hand on your heart. This was followed by the instruction, “Please remain standing for a moment of silent meditation,” the work-around for those who did and didn’t want to pray.
No, it did not. If he were praying by himself, nobody would have joined him, because they would have no way of knowing that he was praying.
And how is it relevant that he wasn’t the head coach? He was still a person in a position of authority over the students.
Requiring people to stand for it is also, IIRC, a violation of their rights.
While I agree with (almost?) everybody that this is complete bullshit, I’m at least relieved to report that even the Attorney General of Oklahoma agrees:
Many school districts have already confirmed they will not be showing the video, including most of the larger districts in the state.
The 1970s were a different era.
No possible way huh? he was praying by himself at midfield after every game. Perhaps he was calling attention to himself, I don’t know. Players and media members saw him do this. They eventually started to join him on their own volition. It’s not that hard of a scenario to envision.
You really don’t understand the concept that one person could demand more respect and exert more influence than another, even if they are both nominally in a position of authority? When I was 8, my father was not someone you wanted to disobey for very good reasons. My regular babysitter on the other hand, while supposedly a person with authority of us kids, was routinely ignored by all of us. My teachers in school fell somewhere in between those two extremes. Again, unless you’re being intentionally obtuse, it’s not hard to figure that a part-time assistant coach exerts considerably less authority over a team’s players than, e.g., the head coach.
The above facts, and the fact that he did not instruct the players to join him, rightly informed the court’s opinion that there was no “coercion” going on here, either express or implied. And thus your statement that the court has “already ruled public school officials are allowed to coerce students into prayer” is simply wrong. There was no coercion, and thus there was no ruling that it is allowed.
I’m not disputing that he exerts less.
Are you disputing that he exerts any?
he certainly HAS some authority. Whether or not he exerted it in this case (to get the players to pray with him) seems to be in question, but based on the facts as the court interpreted them (and as I do also based on what I have read of them), the answer is no.
I’m just ashamed that the whole case about prayer on a high school football field happened in my hometown.
Though at least I can say that it wasn’t at the high school I went to.
SCOTUS will invalidate not recognizing diplomas it through the Full Faith & Credit Clause
What’s the purpose of going to pray at midfield, the most visible place in the entire stadium, other than to be seen and to encourage his team to join him. He could have prayed in his office, in his car, sitting on the bench, anywhere. The logo at the 50 yard line is meant to be a highly visible place.
There is that, too.
of course! There is more than a whiff of demonstrative “don’t bother with me, just a humble guy giving praise to my lord and savior” attitude here. There is absolutely no doubt he wanted to be seen and noted. But the question is did he coerce others to join him. And I’ll admit that this is very contextual, but from what I have read it seems to me the answer is no.
There is absolutely no “whiff” of that happening at the 50 yard line when there are many people in the stands. You are so full of right-wing shit.
Now watch the Superintendent say “yeah but I respond to a Higher Authority”.