I thought you wanted them to choose? Isn’t that up to them?
So you want to take the option of status quo away from Puerto Ricans? How is that respecting their right to choose?
I mean I’m against the status quo, the status quo isn’t purely a Puerto Rican matter it is a matter for all of America. It affects our country to have relationships like that, and IMO it isn’t an appropriate relationship. The era of colonies and empires has passed. The United States is a union of sovereign states, while I can countenance some arrangements involving very small countries where there would actually be genuine difficulties in them exercising self-government (American Samoa, Guam) I generally think everyone needs to be in or out, because we shouldn’t maintain colonies in 2022.
Puerto Ricans of course should get some say, but the rest of the country is not obligated to maintain the current status quo, the current status quo is not neutral for the United States. Keep in mind too, Puerto Rico has a population almost 10 times all other U.S. unincorporated territories combined, PR could absolutely function as its own country, and if it is not interested in doing so it should be a State, if it is interested in doing so it should be granted independence.
I would be fine with continuing a loose agreement with PR akin to what we have with Micronesia which would allow Puerto Rico to forego maintaining its own military if it wanted.
I do want them to choose. They have no choice now. They didn’t create or control the current situation but I think it is far too costly and out of control. Why can’t any state switch to that system where all the other states pay our bills in exchange for tax shelters and corrupt control of our government? There are more people living in Puerto Rico than live in my state. Why should our country continue this incredibly expensive and useless system of control in Puerto Rico? I’d be perfectly happy making it a state but I’m not going to force them to be a state and I don’t want the current system to continue. I’m open to alternatives but I don’t hear any.
I completely agree with Martin Hyde on this. The Federal government qualifies the right-to-choose all of the time.
- Forcing states to elect representatives by district although they have the right to choose how to elect Congresspeople
- Denying the District of Columbia / Douglass Commonwealth statehood.
- Denying states from leaving the Union
PR is effectively a colony, similar to what The Philippines were and is high time that PR made a decision to be a state or to be independent.
I’m sure we’d be pumping money into the new government, certainly providing military protection, and finding a way to continue some services that would largely be available to US citizens, which all Puerto Ricans would still be if given independence.
Why are we even talking about “forcing Puerto Rico to choose”? They’ve already chosen: They chose statehood. The hold-up isn’t at Puerto Rico’s end, at this point. We don’t need Puerto Rico to act; we need Congress.
So, in fact, you don’t want them to be allowed to choose the current arrangement. You may have good reasons for taking that position, but let’s be honest here.
No clear majority in PR has ever said that. Only one referendum has managed to get over 50% for statehood, and it was an incredibly narrow vote with unimpressive turnout. Very few opinion polls have ever shown a strong support for statehood.
??? In 2012, 2017 and 2020 statehood won a majority although admittedly the votes may have been poorly run.
I was quite clear about that from the beginning. There could be other solutions but I’m not hearing any.
I’m not interested in a referendum result that has no teeth to actually do something. If Puerto Rico wants to be a state, the legislature can write the legislation and make the petition to the Congress just the same way that 37 other states did. If they want to disassociate, they can communicate that. The only way I’d consider a referendum meaningful would be if it was the result of legislation that would then trigger an actual action.
I wonder how much of the voter apathy in PR statehood referenda - seemingly a pretty important issue for those folks - is driven by the lack of a standing invitation from Congress. Maybe they feel that the question is moot and that such an invitation won’t be forthcoming.
Heck, maybe they just don’t want to be involved in an anachronistic structure that sometimes appears to be on the verge of fracturing.
Just what I was thinking. Why vote to enter the United States if you think the vote will have no effect.
No it did not. In 2012, 46% of all voters wanted to maintain the existing relationship and of the 54% who did not 61% voted for statehood, so that’s 33% voting for statehood.
In 2017, opponents of statehood boycotted the referendum, and turnout was a horrifyingly bad 23 percent; that’s not really a referendum at all.
Which brings us to another point. Is it morally right for a 51% majority to enact very major changes over the objection of the 49%? Snuffing out a country is a big deal.
If 51% sort think statehood is the way to go, but 49% feel very passionate about independence or the status quo should the majority win? Do we want our own little IRA in Puerto Rico?
Beats me.
The 2012 referendum was so badly designed (intentionally, I think) that it’s not even possible to do that kind of math on it. Everyone got to vote on both questions, and a yes/statehood vote would have been perfectly rational.
In an three-option election, "narrowly over 50% is a clear majority. As for unimpressive turnout, well, that’s in the American tradition, and there’s not much to be done about that, but what we can say is that, of those who cared enough to vote, a clear majority preferred statehood.
The alternative is for the 49% to be able to stifle the 51%. Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all of the other forms.
I dint think the United States well ever let PR have statehood.
Can we also renegotiate our relationship with Texas, or Kansas, or any of the other states that have corruption isuses and don’t pull their weight in taxes? Why should Californians pay the bills for Missouri or Kentucky?
nevermind.