This question was inspired by a different thread about Pres. Lincoln. The question is this: I have parused the US Constitution and have found nothing addresing seceding from the union. States must petition the right to be accepted, but judging by the Civil War, they aren’t allowed to leave. Sounds like the mafia to me. Once you’re in you’re in. Doesn’t matter if the people who PUT you in are decomposed already or not. Anyone got an idea?
Michael Corleone: Just when I thought that I was out they pull me back in.
Yeah, the US does sound mafia-esque in that regard. Perhaps if a state formally requested (with good reasons) in front of Congress, the Supreme Court, or the President, they’d say, “No way, but thanks for asking.” :D:D
Yeah, the War Of Northern Aggression (I’m not a southerner, I just think it’s a funny term) pretty much proved that states can’t seceed.
I personally disagree with that decision. Counter to the idea of a republic in some manners - but it’s not like we haven’t been pushing for a democracy (and a police state, at that, but that’s a different thread!) for over a hundred years now.
keep up talk like that and we’ll ahve to move to Great Debates- Should they be called ‘Great Impotent Debates’ since it doesn’t really seem like anything ever changes, people who’ve been here longer (on the 'Dope) tend to flame any new posters that post any content that differs from their preconcieved notions about the world. (I’ll stop there or it’ll belong in the pit…;~}
There is nothing…nada…zip…zilch in the constitution that says a state can’t seceed. But at the same time there is nothing that says they can’t. Sort of a catch 22 ya know?
I personally believe they had every right to seceed. But thats for another thread in another forum.
You have your forms of government mixed up there, SenorBeef. In a Republic, the central government is strong and the people (or, more commonly, regions) send representatives to be heard there. In a Democracy, the central government is either weak or nonexistent and the people govern by consensus. We, and most ‘Democracies,’ are actually a Republic. Democracies are rare, only existing in very limited regions, such as certain cantons in Switzerland. Democracy is also called ‘Pure Democracy,’ because countries like us insist on calling ourselves Democracies when we are, in fact, Republics.
So it would make sense for a strong central government to want to preclude secession. It would make no sense for a Democracy to stop secession if a consensus could be reached favoring it.
And on the other hand, there’s not a thing in the constitution that says a state can’t succeed. 
I was under the impression that a republic is made up of individual States who would largely govern themselves, but would allow representation of themselves to a central government for matters concerning the entire republic.
Ok, what I’m getting at here is that the US Gov. is broken. Big Buck$$ runs the show and it’s been pre-arranged that small buck$ has no chance. Some states are working on these ‘Free Election’ systems in which a potential candidate can recieve state(Federal also??)funding if they garner 1000 signatures (or some such figure, exact numbers I don’t have right now) endorsing your bid for office. So far its for public offices at the state level that I’ve heard so far (and obviously not for private offices, thats called getting hired! ;-]) AND…
If an intellegent and selfless person were to get elected as Governor such a person could set up the state in a much more ‘Democratic’ style (or even more communist in the pure Marxist sense on the idea)and if it works right, people will be happier. By the People for the People right? Then this new and improved state could theoretically secede, attract more like minded people/states, then America could theoretically be rebuilt with the people#s interests at heart, not big business campaign donors.
Being admitted as a state to the United States of America is essentially a legal contract and as such is binding on both parties. Neither party can unilaterally negate the contract. So a state cannot withdraw from the nation and the nation cannot evict a state, unless both the state and the nation agree to the seperation.
You have a cite for that?
Show me where it says that say…just for example…that North Carolina can’t just up and leave the union. Where is something that says they can’t?
**Reeder **:
“I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”
[sub]See also: The American Civil War[/sub]
Just my 2sense
Nothing personal…
But I would prefer something with just a bit more bite than something school children recite.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t wan’t to see it happen. But there is nothing in the constitution or anywhere else that prohibits a state from leaving.
Neal Horsley has suggested the idea of seceding, if some of his fanatics could get their hands on a few nukes.
I disagree that that Constitution is silent on the issue of secession. The tenth amendment states in toto:
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
Therefore, since the Constitution does not prohibit secession, it is a right reserved to the states.
As I understand it, to entice Texas into joining the union it got some sort of special clause on some document (not sure what it would be.) The clause gives it the right to unilaterally secede. Alternatively, it also has the right to break itself into up to five separate states, to give it greater representation in the Senate. Every once in awhile the five state thing makes the news.
It would make sense for some coastal or border states to secede: California, Montana, Texas, Florida, NY, etc. but howsabout Nebraska Indiana, or Colorado or such. Kinda isolate themselves somewhat, wouldn’t you say. Take a mitey big reason for those non-border or non-coastal states to secede, unless of course, they could entice the entire region to go along with them. 
Got a friend who lives up in Bozeman, Montana. According to him, there’s a lot of foks up there who would like nothing better than to secede… along with some other folks who line their houses with tinfoil so the “alien radars” can’t find them.
According to a show I saw several years ago, the Neo-Nazi crowd thinks they deserve their own nation, similar to how Isreal came to be. They think Montana would be a good place for that.
As a curious aside, I believe my home state of Western Australia (imaginatively named) in fact voted to secede from the Commonwealth of Australia at some time in the distant past. Well, before I was born :P. Anyway, the federal government pretty much said “no”, and thats where it stopped.