Static Electricity and the Turning Pages

[Sage_Rat]

In the following video, there is a test of a man who purports to have telekenetic powers. A skeptic tester (James Randi) surmises that wind is being used, not mind waves, and so places some packaging peanuts around the test item (a phonebook) to see if they will be moved. The telekentic fellow backs down without attempting the feat, but proclaims that it would be impossible to move the pages due to static charge in the peanuts.

- YouTube

I assume that we have Dopers here who know more than I do about magnetism, static electricity, and conductive elements. And if one is willing to be logical about judging the validity of the test, you must first be willing to accept the judgement of those who have studied these specific things, if one is not himself qualified to do so.

To those qualified to answer the question, is it possible for static electricity in the peanuts to exert any force on the phone book? Or, if so, then how much force can we expect, and would that be more than it would take to lift or at least visibly effect a single page?

[Mangetout]

I couldn’t get your link to work, but you’re talking about James Hydrick - self-styled martial arts guru who trained himself to perform quite amazing breathing tricks - he was able to blow a very strong and directional puff of air from his mouth without it showing or being audible even to people right next to him (mostly). That was of course the real reason he failed the test - he wouldn’t have been able to blow the page without disturbing the packing chips.

I don’t think it’s at all reasonable that static electricity from the foam stuck the pages together - from memory, they weren’t even in contact with the book - merely dusted around it on the table.

[Mangetout]

Not to mention, of course, that Hydrick also later came clean and confessed it was all done by blowing.

[Sage_Rat]

@Mangetout

I couldn’t get your link to work […]

I don’t think it’s at all reasonable that static electricity from the foam stuck the pages together - from memory, they weren’t even in contact with the book - merely dusted around it on the table.

The link works for me, so no idea there.

And the self-admission aside, could you go more in-depth on why it matters whether the peanuts were in contact with the book or not? Magnets, after all, will attract through space.

[Contrapuntal]

For the sake of accuracy, Hydrick claimed that the peanuts and the lights were creating the static electricity.

[Sage_Rat]

@Contrapuntal

For the sake of accuracy, Hydrick claimed that the peanuts and the lights were creating the static electricity.

Well, yeah, but I think we may as well stick to the explanation that seems to have a foot in plausibility.

[Contrapuntal]

@Sage Rat

Well, yeah, but I think we may as well stick to the explanation that seems to have a foot in plausibility.

Oh, sure. I just got the idea that he was claiming the lights and the peanuts were acting in concert, as it were. As if the lights were imparting the charge to the peanuts.

I could easily be wrong.

[Mangetout]

@Sage Rat

The link works for me, so no idea there.

I couldn’t get to YouTube at all for about half an hour. Working now - dunno what that was.

And the self-admission aside, could you go more in-depth on why it matters whether the peanuts were in contact with the book or not? Magnets, after all, will attract through space.

Fair enough, but magnetism and static electricity are not the same phenomenon (oh, someone’s going to nitpick that, but you know what I mean).

OK… At about 14 minutes into the video, one of the judges asks to turn a few of the pages by hand. There’s no evidence at all of static cling.

However, when Randi was arranging the foam chips, they did fall on the book and he moved and brushed them off to the sides. There is therefore no way to absolutely say that there isn’t some static electricity involved, but: “The… lights… and the styrofoam form electricity which pulls the page… down” is so very obviously an ad-hoc excuse.

IMO, Randi should have used fewer foam chips, and set them carefully, one at a time around the book on all sides, perhaps on upturned glasses or something.

Finally, yes, so it might actually not be a completely fair test, but let’s remember, this wasn’t supposed to be the JREF challenge we’re all a bit more familiar with. This was a TV show.

[Czarcasm]

@Contrapuntal

Oh, sure. I just got the idea that he was claiming the lights and the peanuts were acting in concert, as it were. As if the lights were imparting the charge to the peanuts.

I could easily be wrong.

Perhaps his powers only work when there is nothing between him and the target, and the lights are out. Many psychics have the same problem-their powers seem to disappear when a light is shown on them.

[askeptic]

Here is a link James Hydrick’s confession. Not that it will convince lekatt but others may be interested.

[Garula]

If he really did have telekinetic powers, he could have tried to repeat it using a different control. To be honest, I was kind of disappointed that Randi didn’t offer to try a different control when Hydrick made up that excuse. A clear plastic sheet placed between him and the phone book would have worked. Or perhaps a pinwheel. I find it hard to believe something so colorful and jovial as a pinwheel would interfere with psychic abilities!

[Contrapuntal]

@Garula

If he really did have telekinetic powers, he could have tried to repeat it using a different control. To be honest, I was kind of disappointed that Randi didn’t offer to try a different control when Hydrick made up that excuse. A clear plastic sheet placed between him and the phone book would have worked. Or perhaps a pinwheel. I find it hard to believe something so colorful and jovial as a pinwheel would interfere with psychic abilities!

askeptic’s link states that Randi offered to have him attempt it without the styrofoam, but wearing a germ-mask. He refused. My guess is he would have refused to accept the plastic barrier as well.

It also suggests that he tried for *an hour and a half *before giving up. Edited for TV, of course.

[RedSwinglineOne]

I haven’t found a clip, but I could swear I remember that on one of the shows, they let him try it with no foam, but wearing a microphone close to his mouth. After much excuse making, he finally tried it and you clearly heard him puff. Does anyone else remember that?

[askeptic]

I would like to point out that the link I provided contains a transcript of an interview where the guy admits that he never had psychic powers that it was done with puffs of air that he only made the psychic claims to get attention. Incidentally he also admits that he developed his tricks while killing time in solitary confinement in prison. I think all other “psychics” should be given a similar opportunity to develop their cons.

[Contrapuntal]

@RedSwinglineOne

I haven’t found a clip, but I could swear I remember that on one of the shows, they let him try it with no foam, but wearing a microphone close to his mouth. After much excuse making, he finally tried it and you clearly heard him puff. Does anyone else remember that?

Are you thinking of this, from askeptic’s link?

Randi immediately offered Hydrick his prize of $10,000 for
proof of one paranormal demonstration under proper conditions of
observations. Hydrick accepted Randi’s offer and agreed to be
tested on the TV show “That’s My Line.” During a rehearsal
practice session with Hydrick the day before the actual taping
Randi had the session, unknown to Hydrick, videotaped, with a
highly sensitive microphone aimed and focused at Hydrick’s mouth,
and with the amplifier turned up far beyond normal voice level.
Randi’s microphone recorded monumental blasts of air every time
the page moved or the pencil turned.

Or maybe this Wikipedia article?

Hydrick rose to international attention through his demonstration of these skills on the American television show, That’s Incredible!. The episode originally aired in December 1980 and was later repeated in 1981. He performed the pencil-spinning trick with the skeptical host’s hand on his mouth to block possible air blowing (after the host suggested that he could hear Hydrick blowing). However, Hydrick deliberately readjusted the pencil beforehand so that it was as precarious as possible and so would move with the slight disturbance caused by his hands.

[yoyodyne]

I wondered why Randi didn’t just rotate the book 90 degrees. Or are psychic powers unidirectional?

[Contrapuntal]

@yoyodyne

I wondered why Randi didn’t just rotate the book 90 degrees. Or are psychic powers unidirectional?

I have to ask. Is your username a Pynchon reference?

[Garula]

I took a look at the confession. Unfortunately, the article doesn’t give enough info to prove its authenticity. An airdate would be nice, as would the name of the TV special on which it aired. Personally, I think it’s probably legitimate, but for the sake of heading off any “it’s a hoax, he never really said that” arguments, it would be nice to authenticate it.

I didn’t realize Randi offered those other options during the test. I guess they were edited out of the clip I saw or I just wasn’t paying very close attention. My sympathies go out to that television audience.

[askeptic]

@Garula

I took a look at the confession. Unfortunately, the article doesn’t give enough info to prove its authenticity. An airdate would be nice, as would the name of the TV special on which it aired. Personally, I think it’s probably legitimate, but for the sake of heading off any “it’s a hoax, he never really said that” arguments, it would be nice to authenticate it.

I didn’t realize Randi offered those other options during the test. I guess they were edited out of the clip I saw or I just wasn’t paying very close attention. My sympathies go out to that television audience.

You can buy a copy of the actual program and see the confession for yourself here.
From the cite:

Overview: This classic 1983 program, seen by over 100 million people worldwide, contains the only known on-camera confession of a cult-like leader who claimed to have powers. In 1981, James Hydrick, three years after the Jonestown Massacre, developed a cult-like following in Salt Lake City. He appeared on national television, fooling millions with his claims of psychic powers and alleged healing miracles. Investigative journalist, Dan Korem, not only exposed on camera how each of Hydrick’s tricks worked, like moving objects without touching them, but his eighteen month investigation also resulted in obtaining the only known confession of a cult-like figure. After the broadcast of this special, cult-like groups with similar leaders disbanded.

Additionally, the Department of Health and Human Services purchased the program as it was the first documentary that traced the effects of child abuse through the eyes of an adult.

Los Angeles Times—It's an altogether fascinating study that transcends the
somewhat exploitive subject matter.

Hollywood Reporter—It's a remarkable example of effective electronic
investigative journalism.

· Who can use this book: Anyone interested in how cults form and psychics and others who fake their miracles. Also, compelling confession shows the connection between severe trauma as a youth and aberrant group formation. Has been used in many universities and by law enforcement agencies.
· Format: 48 min. VHS

[Czarcasm]

@Contrapuntal

I have to ask. Is your username a Pynchon reference?

I think not, buckaroo.