In baseball it is legal for the guy running home to plow into the catcher with all his force to try and get him to drop the ball, as long as the catcher is blocking the plate. It is perfectly legal. It is also extremely dangerous, especially for the catcher. Buster Posey missed the entire season due to a collision at the plate., but my main thought would be about possible head injuries. With all the other sports getting very serious about head injuries do you think baseball might do something about this play? I am not sure what you can do, but it also seems to me sort of out of line with the rest of the game that this is legal. I know it is exciting and everything, but does something need to be done?
I’m not sure what can sensibly be done about those plays. I do think catchers need to get a lot of training in positioning themselves and trying to avoid contact - something Posey apparently did not have - but I’m not sure how you regulate the play to make it safer.
I’m not sure a ton of additional regulation is necessary. I’m pretty sure I’m already not allowed to try to knock the crap out of the guy covering second if I’m trying to steal the base; you’d just extend the same rule to cover home plate.
I agree with storyteller0910. Extend the rules that already exist for 1st, 2nd and 3rd base to home plate.
I’m not sure about that. Can anybody post what those rules actually say?
In professional baseball, it is legal. In college and high school, intentionally running into any fielder, including the catcher, in an attempt to make the fielder drop the ball is not only an automatic out, but an automatic ejection as well. (I’m not sure when the college rules were changed to make it an out, but the high school rule was changed sometime around 1985.)
From googling around, I think the rules work this way: catchers are allowed to use their bodies to block the plate and other infielders are not. That’s one reason you don’t see those type of intentional, high speed full-body collisions at first or second or third. (The other reason is that you can’t overrun second and third base.) So to start with, you’d have to make it against the rules for the catcher to do use their bodies to block the plate. As it is, they’re not allowed to block the plate when they don’t have the ball, and that rule is not consistently enforced. Runners are also not allowed to run into a fielder if they have a clear path to the base they are approaching. So if you change those two rules, you can cut down on home plate collisions or eliminate them. And I think I’m OK with those tweaks. Basically you just make the catcher get out of the basepath and tag the runner the same way the other inflielders do. That doesn’t sound like a problem or a huge change.
It’s not a concussion issue because the runner rarely hits the catcher’s head. You’re either sliding under the tag or crashing into his hands and body so he’ll drop the ball.
There’s no difference about how this is handled at the other bases. You are allowed to slide in hard at second base to break up a double play, though if you deliberately spike the second baseman, there will be retaliation. In addition, there’s no reason to try to do the same thing with the first baseman (since it’s a force play and you’re allowed to overrun the bag).
The only time there is a similar situation at second is when you’re trying to stretch a single into a double, or possibly try to tag up on a long fly (though that’s a very risky move). It can happen at third, but it probably only occurs on stretching to a triple and you are allowed to slide in so that you kick the ball out of the fielder’s glove.
Along the lines of **Reality Chuck’s **comments, here’s my understanding of the rules as it pertains to running over fielders (feel free to dispute me if I have this wrong):You may not interfere with a fielder in the act of making a play on a ball, nor may a fielder who is not in the act of making a play obstruct a runner. Beyond that, all bets are off.
In other words, if a catcher blocks the plate without the ball, he may only do so if, in the judgement of the umpire, he is in the act of catching a ball thrown his way; in the meantime, it is the responsibility of the runner to avoid contact until such time as the catcher has received the ball. Conversely, the catcher may not block the plate if the ball isn’t incoming and will be called for obstruction if the runner hits him while attempting to reach the plate.
But this applies at every base. Any fielder may, without penalty, block a base while in possession of the ball and any runner may, without penalty, try to dislodge the ball from that fielder by way of collision or try to go through that fielder to get to the base. This is why runners go in hard at second trying to break up double plays and why they are in jeopardy of getting called for interference if they come off their own baseline in the commission of trying to run down a fielder while trying to break up a double play.
The reason we don’t see this as often on the bases is because infielders aren’t wearing a bunch of protective gear, so it’s in their best interests to avoid contact with players (and their cleats) as much as possible. I myself have taken a spike or two in the shin after catching a throw from the outfield and dropping my leg in the path of a sliding runner to block him off the bag while putting the tag down. This is perfectly legal.
At home, catchers are encouraged to block the plate because A) they have protection on and B) if the runner makes it home, he scores. Runners are conversely encouraged to run down a blocking catcher in an effort to score that precious run and, as is the case at first, there is no prohibition about stopping on the base, so you can come in with a full head of steam instead of sliding.
So taking all this together, it is absolutely critical that catchers line themselves up properly to avoid injury in these situations and this is basic, fundamental baseball. It is likewise critical that the umpires do a proper job of enforcing the rules to remove the chance of a collision when the catcher is not in position to be hit.
To one of the OP’s other points, in my experience, the vast majority of injuries in these collosions are broken limbs, not concussions. The goal is to dislodge the ball from the catcher’s hands, so head shots don’t tend to happen much. However, broken arms or legs, blown out knees and separated shoulders are what you can usually expect if something is going to go wrong.
Having said ALL that, That Don Guy is also correct in saying that collosions of any kind have largely been regulated out of most levels of ball. I’ve never played in or coached in a league that allowed runners to intentionally hit fielders, so it typically is not much of an issue for us, a;though we nevertheless teach our catchers proper technique for lining themselves up with their foot pointing down the line so as to avoid serious leg injuries on the off chance that a collision does occur.
Collisions of this type are so unusual that I really don’t think there is a pressing need to worry about it the way there is in hockey or football, where concussing injuries are extremely frequent (and the worrisome part is not the spectacular ones, but the little ones nobody notices.)
That said, I don’t see why you couldn’t enforce the rule a bit more strictly. In the play in which Buster Posey was injured, the runner, Scott Cousins, made no effort to get to the plate; he targeted Posey deliberately. Posey was NOT in Cousins’s baseline, or at most he was just barely in it. I’m not blaming Cousins for being a mean guy because that’s what was expected of him, but I don’t see anything wrong with adding an interpretation to the rulebook saying that the runner as a responsibility to avoid a collision if it is possible for him to reach the plate while doing so (as in fact it was, in the case of the Cousins-Posey play.)
I played catcher for a number of years and in college before the rules changed. The truth was I don’t think I was involved in more than 3-4 full blown collisions in 17 years. I do remember Ray Fosse having his shoulder ruined and two years ago Carlos Santana got his knee blown out - but there’s a heckuva a lot more danger posed by a thrown/pitched or batted ball than a collision - even with helmets.
What I don’t get is why umpires aren’t required to wear helmets, they are in as much danger as the catcher and batter let alone the base coaches and batboys.
I think there’s more danger on a routine basis, but the upper-end injuries are a lot worse from collisions. I will make an exception for repeated shots to the mask/helmet, as it can lead to concussions which can quickly drive a player out of baseball (i.e. Mike Matheny). But a ball pitched or hit to another part of the catcher’s body is at worst going to cause a broken bone but mostly will just make a really bad bruise.
A collision at home can result in a concussion if the catcher is thrown backwards, or injuries to the knee/legs if the catcher’s legs get caught underneath him.
FWIW I hate these kinds of collisions and wish they would be eliminated immediately, but baseball like many other sports is resistant to change so, for now, the “it’s part of the game” voices are carrying the day.
Knee, ankle, arm, and shoulder injuries are the primary concerns for catchers in home plate collisions rather than concussions. They can leave the helmet on as well, but it can be more difficult to see a thrown ball coming in from the outfield. I don’t foresee any changes in MLB policy for home plate collisions.
I don’t fully understand the base running tagging and interference rules in the MLB. Apparently, a runner can be called out for interference by slapping* the ball out of a fielder’s glove when a tag out is imminent, but a runner is safe at home if he violently collides full speed with a catcher to knock the ball out of the mitt when a tag is imminent and then touches home plate.
*Reference Game #6 of the 2004 ALCS (Red Sox vs Yankees) 8th inning. ARod slapped the ball out of Arroyo’s glove as a tag was applied while running to first base. The umps reversed the initial call of safe at 1st base after a conference and arguments from both teams. ARod was called out for interference. Riot police entered foul territory for the rest of the inning because some fans were becoming unruly after that play. I was happy that the Sox won this series, but I am still confused by this play and understand the anger of the Yanks’ fans that night.
This is the key.
An infielder cannot block the path to a base if they are not in control of the ball. A good infielder will set up to receive a throw in such a manner that they offer a clear path to the base to the runner, but it’s one that they can easily control.
For example: runner on first, batter hits to right field. Runner rounds second, heads for third. A good third baseman will set up on the corner of third base closest to the pitcher’s mound. The runner has a clear path to the base, but it’s one that the third baseman can easily cover with a tag once he catches the ball.
I admit I find it puzzling anyone would be confused by the call on Rodriguez, which was unquestionably interference and no serious baseball fan, not even Yankees fans, thought otherwise upon seeing a replay.
The reason a collision can be technically legal is simply that the runner and fielder are both entitled to occupy a particular point in space, and so neither is breaking a rule if they collide, provided the fielder has the ball. Rodriguez was not asserting his right to the space of his basepath; he went out of his way to interfere with a fielder making a play, which is illegal.