Let me give you a brief background on my life first, to put things in context…
I have two sons, 12 and 9 years old. Their mother, my ex, is mixed raced, being black, Hawaiian and Chinese and as for myself, I am white. So my boys look pretty white, aside from their hair being a little thicker and curly. But in any sense, they do know a bit about race and what it’s like being mixed race, as I know that other kids have asked them about it.
So any way, I have heard my 12 year old say in a playfully faux offended way, “Daddy that’s racist,” if ever a comment is made between me and him (or anyone in our circle) about a black person or Asian or whatever. Usually the comment is more talking about something that a particular culture or race is known to do, such as Asians eating a lot of rice or blacks listening to rap or hip hop more than whites. Those are just random examples since I can’t quite remember exactly what was said each time. Now these things are pretty trivial as far as conversations go, but in response to my son throwing out the playful, “Daddy that’s racist” comment, I always try to correct him by saying that the comments are “stereotyping, not being racist. Racism involves hatred because of someones race, not because of something that they tend to do.”
So my question to all of you is this - am I right?? Is there a difference between racism and stereotyping?
In my view, it’s racism, if an extremely mild version of it. You might disagree with that, and that’s fine. Racism doesn’t always involve hatred, in my view, and can definitely just involve “something that they tend to do”. I don’t necessarily worry as much about this form of racism – “black people listen to hip-hop” isn’t a belief that leads to practices or policies that oppress, I think, unlike many other racist beliefs. But “black people like to rape white women” (for example) definitely is, and has.
But a better condemnation of such statements (“Asians eat so much rice!” or “black people are always listening to hip-hop!” or similar) is that they’re pointless and unnecessary, in my view. Lots of Asians eat rice, and lots of black people listen to hip-hop, but lots of other groups do this things, and lots of Asians and black people don’t eat rice or listen to hip-hop.
What point are you trying to convey with such statements? Is it just jokes, or something else?
Boss: “Hey monstro. You know that stakeholders group meeting tomorrow? I was thinking that after you give your presentation, it would be great if you could do a little tap dancing routine with a bone in your nose. That would be awesome, don’t you think?”
monstro: “Don’t you think that’s incredibly racist?”
Boss: “Racist! Lord no! It’s just good-natured stereotyping!”
monstro: “Get the fuck out of my office, you cracka ass cracka!”
I think another good example would be the relationship between Raj and Howard on Big Bang Theory. Howard is constantly making jokes and references to Raj’s Indian culture, but in a joking manner usually. Now it’s apparent that Howard is not racist as he seems to have no hatred or malice towards Raj or Muslims in general, so would the comments be considered racist or just offensive stereotyping?
I guess the main point I’m trying to make here is that the word “racist” or “racism” has such a negative connotation to it and so to be considered a racist, to me, would be very upsetting. I’m not saying that making a stereotypical comment is necessarily OK, but I think it’s taking it too far if you call it racist. But in the end, I think it just depends on the situation.
If it’s not “necessarily OK”, then why do it? Seems the way to avoid accusations of racism is to avoid saying things that might be racist. It’s pretty easy to not make sweeping generalizations about a race or religion – so why not just avoid it?
You have all made valid points and I thank you for not turning this into a big deal that could have spiraled out of control.
I feel that taking all this into consideration, the bottom line is, that I should try to just not make the comments at all, whether they were meant as a joke or not. As well I should teach my kids the same thing.
I’m of the belief that the label you append to something (racist vs stereotype) has nothing to do with its appropriateness or offensiveness. If you routinely find yourself talking about what “they” do, you may eventually annoy someone who falls into the “they” category and objects to being reduced to a generality. Particularly if you are from a different group.
That said, its not taboo to point out elements of culture and geography. East Asian cuisines are rice-heavy. Hip-hop emerged from a subset of African American culture. This doesn’t mean that it’s safe to assume any random Asian person eats a ton of rice or that any given black person knows the latest Kanye. But it’s not stereotyping to point out these people,* as a group*, partake in things that distinguish them from other groups.
You don’t have to hate someone to be racist towards them. Plenty of slaveowners back in the day professed love for their slaves, and yet considered them no better than animals. And they were as racist as racist comes.
Exactly. Plenty of people throughout history have thought of other races as inferior or even subhuman while having a sort of paternalistic affection for them.
My conservative, Fox News watching, Methodist brother-in-law from Texas, lives up to his stereotype. He regularly complains about poor, lazy blacks and Mexicans and whatnot. But if you ask him, he’ll tell you straight out that he’s not racist, but it seems to everyone else that he is.
You obviously aren’t in the same class, but if others are picking up something then maybe there isn’t a need for as much stereotyping.
They’re both on the same spectrum of “othering”, perhaps, with a variable boundary of offensiveness at the point at which it’s generally accepted that focussing on whatever perceived group identity makes someone “other”, rather than on what they are as an individual, is inappropriate or irrelevant in the context - especially if it’s some particularly crude or crass sort of perception.
The difficulty lies in negotiating where that point is, and how general the acceptance is. That keeps shifting over time.
Or put it another way - in any given conversation, is it really necessary to refer to a group identity at all?
I agree with all here that neither behavior is positive, helpful, or appropriate. It leads to psychological “othering” and social division.
FWIW, I do think they are two separate (or separable) behaviors. Racism is about intrinsic characteristics that can’t be changed, while stereotyping is about cultural or learned practices that could be changed.
One problem is that, as in the OP, these seem to blur sometimes. A characteristic that might be applied to a nationality is applied to a race instead.
Another really, really trivial distinction is that racism is nearly always negative, while stereotyping can be positive. “Those Vietnamese kids really study and do their homework, and always get straight A’s.”
Also, they can easily get twisted into, for example, “Asians are passive, physically weak nerds.”
Here’s yet another definition I’ve heard: racism is prejudice abetted and reinforced by the power of authority and by societal structure. Therefore, under that definition, there IS no such thing as “reverse racism”, and only the dominant ones can be racist, while everyone else is prejudiced.
Leaper: There is some validity to the notion that “the underdog can’t be racist.” For instance, there simply aren’t any dirty words for “white guy” that have any power to hurt. “Cracker.” “Honky.” Yawn. It doesn’t work; it can’t work.
But this doesn’t apply in situations where there is a different concentration of power. A black boss, for instance, refusing to hire white workers. That is racism; the black man is not the “underdog” in that situation.
Taking cues on race relations from situation comedies is like taking cues on relationships from porn.
At least, that’s the opinion of the guy in an interracial marriage with mixed race children who still get upset about all the “good natured joking” they were subjected to while they were growing up.
I tend towards using the word “prejudice” in that you are pre-judging someone based on the group of people they’re associated with, their stereotypes or other ignorant assumptions. “Prejudice” covers more than just race, it includes religion, gender, culture, even age.