I wish there was more support for this given he was Zappas “Little Italian Virtuoso”.
This board seems to be enamored with all things Frank Zappa (not a bad thing)but a vehemence towards Vai (“he’s not my thing/cup of tea”). So which is it? The dude has proven himself many times over as a solo musician, and yet people hate him (especially old skool Keith Richards guys “That’s not rock and/or roll!”)
Why the hate then? He’s an accomplished player, he’s played with your precious genius, can read music (unlike most guitar players) and has set himself up as an extremely influential and accomplished guitar god. Why the hate, then?
No hate, tons of respect. He just does little for me. And for the most part that includes his playing with Zappa. Shredders like Vai just don’t interest me much. Yes, I know he has varied skills and probably shouldn’t be pigeon-holed, but I’ve never heard anything he did that caught my attention for more than a minute or two.
Just a matter of taste. I love guitar music. I could be perfectly happy on a long road trip listening to a several hours of Johnny Winter or( pre-metal )Rory Gallagher, which I’m sure is a notion that might fill some with horror ;). But I wouldn’t last more than a couple of minutes with Vai. Very talented, but not my cup of tea.
I’m a rarity here- a guy who admires Frank Zappa in many regards (he had an unmatched work ethic and his music shows a complexity that few “progressive” acts approach) but thinks very, very little of Zappa’s output was much good. Zappa aimed high, and in my opinion, 90% of the time he missed big. Even his best stuff just isn’t that great.
As for Steve Vai… he’s a remarkable musician but, alas, not much of a composer. As a result, he can blow me away with his skills for 30 seconds… and then I tend to lose interest because the lightning fast solos he plays just aren’t very interesting. Eddie Van Halen in his prime had a knack for writing hooks, catchy riffs. His innovative solos were a bonus. But Vai, like Yngwie Malmsteen, just doesn’t write good music, and needs to work with someone who can.
I like a lot of Vai’s stuff and Satriani as well. Honestly a lot of Zappa’s output is unlistenable. Malmsteem just has no soul in his music, there is something impressive about technicality, but it shouldn’t override the song otherwise it’s just a novelty. I will say I really love Vai’s song For the Love of God, it’s very unique and amazing, The guy is such a talent, he comes about as close as anyone to directly channeling his brainwaves through the instrument, by God he can make that guitar do anything he wishes!
Me either, by way of comparison, but the guy can really play, and it ain’t all “Shredder’s delight” , either.
…and that’s a good thing (though I also like Satch)
…and that’s a REALLY good thing. Not sure if you’re joking, but Yngwie is a joke and has been since about 1986.
But see…that is indeed a matter of taste, and genres. I feel the same way about the repetitive nature of the blues so I don’t think I could make it through hours of Johnny Winter (not that Vai was really any good as a blues player, he’s not). The only blues guy I can tolerate for that long is probably Stevie Ray (or maybe Bonamossa) and those guys share more with Vai than traditional blues players.
I kinda agree but Vai is so much more than lightning fast solos. In fact, there are many others that make Vai seem slow. And while I agree that Vai’s solo music isn’t what I would call great, his Passion And Warfare is EXCELLENT headphone music, and if you listen carefully, very much influenced by Zappa (which is good or bad, depending).
I think Passion And Warfare is the best instrumentally based electric guitar album ever recorded, and it’s not close.
That’s entirely fair, and very much along my lines of thinking.
Metal? Rory?? There must be an album out there that I haven’t heard!
About Steve Vai- there are guitarists who, when I first heard them I immediately wanted to hear everything they’ve ever done. Jorma Kaukonen, Stevie Ray Vaughan, the aforementioned Mr. Gallagher.
With Steve Vai my response was, hey that guy is really talented and I don’t care if I ever hear any more.
If that makes sense.
Lump me in with the “huge respect, but not my guy, he doesn’t move me” camp.
His signature guitar by Ibanez, the JEM, has become its out sub-category of super Strat. The ones with the “monkey grip” hole. 7 strings, his pickup layout, etc - when the JEM came out at the time, it was an innovative combo of features that seems to have endured.
That is a matter of taste that I cannot argue…it’s like asking for your opinions to be made into laws…
But a serious question: Jorma as a guitarist? Isn’t he more known for “songs”? If you’d have picked Stevie Ray first you’d have had me at hello…
Yeah. It’s weird how these things go. What’s interesting is that Vai actually can read music and can play a 7-string without resorting to an utter downdrop metal sound. Anyway, it’s funny that the Jem endures, mostly because most of us guitarists, this Vai admirer included, don’t want and would never own one!
Jorma Kaukonen is a highly regarded guitar player, mostly for his approach to old fingerstyle Blues. He founded and still runs the Fur Peace Ranch, a guitar retreat where old farts like me, and young folk, can get lessons. I haven’t gone - I don’t cotten to lessons well - but if I did, I’d consider there first.
Fois I wouldn’t own any locking trem, let alone seven string, super Strat guitar. You might as well hand me an oboe. Ibanez, especially with their higher end models, just kills on quality - their fit and finish has always been highly regarded. So if a player is into that style, JEMs are apparently a great alternative. Not to mention that he and Satriani have long-standing relationships with Ibanez - given their meticulous precision as players, it says a lot. Again, as a slop-based groove dog ;), I have no appreciation for what those guitars can do.
As I continue to roll through the end of this life with my (awesome) Schecter C-1 guitar and Blackstar tube amp that surely makes me no friends, I wish I had a guitar like that. Speaking of guys like EVH, I happen to love hot rails to hell, whammy bar divebombs. But this is also why I like Vai…and even, say, Gilmour. Both of those guys in their own way have incorporated into their sound the tremolo bar. Vai’s is obviously more…obvious…but Dave’s is sublime. Both deserve their place.
I appreciate good whammy work - both sublime and athletic - in other players, but have no desire to include it in my playing. Discovering the simplicity of a Telecaster was a way of keeping me anchored on Less is More. A whammy is just another thing for me to overplay. I don’t need that.
Right now when I am playing for fun, I am setting up the infamous two-string funk groove from James Brown’s song The Payback, featuring Jimmy Chank Nolen on guitar at his absolute chankiest. That guitar riff has been sampled everywhere so everyone knows it, but grooving on it is harder than you’d think. It’s also not in Gilmour, EVH or Vai territory. Less is More and funky - yes.
Vai suffers from Roy Buchanan Syndrome. Absolutely brilliant technician, but unable to write a memorable song (or make an existing song his own). Guitar players love him, but general music lovers don’t care how good he is.
I’d generally agree with the idea that the reason he’s not more well-known is that he hasn’t written a string of hits. I’m not sure that a string of hits or easily digestible songs is really his aim, though. Same with Buchanan or Beck.
Heck, Lonnie Mack was able to write a few hits and near hits mostly based on his superlative guitar ability. He could sing like nobody’s business, to boot. He got on the cusp of stardom, decided it wasn’t really what he wanted, and went back to the farm.
In regard to Vai’s place in the world of shredders, I still have some of his recordings in my collection. If I want that kind of shredding, I will happily pull those out. I’ve never been a big fan of Satriani, but I confess to owning Yngwie’s first couple of records.
Steve Vai is outstanding! I’ve been playing for over 30 years now and can at least follow along and understand what most players are doing, guys like Marty Friedman and Eric Johnson, but Vai is one of those guys I listen to and some passages I have no idea how he’s doing that. And while he made his bones as a shredder, he’s demonstrated he possesses a sense of melody and good songwriting with more reserved tracks like “Sisters” (one of my favorite instrumental songs ever).
