Still the White Man's World?

Great Debates
1

No matter how you reckon it, it’s a new millenium. I’d guess society is a bit better than it was 1000 years ago.

We’ve got women’s lib. Hell, we’ve got feminism.

We’ve got civil rights. We’ve got Black power.

We’ve got religious tolerance.

We’ve got gay rights.

Some even say we’ve got reverse discrimination. I’ve even seen it.

Society has conveyed certain advantages to being white, male, heterosexual, and Christian for the last thousand years or so. At the very least, the road has been a little bit harder, and a little bit longer if you didn’t fit those criteria.

It’s a new millenium though. Do the old prejudices still apply? Have we gotten past them? Or, have we replaced them with new prejudices?

Whose world is it now?

2

Mine

3

I would like to think that “The White Man” has learned a thing or two.

Fifty years ago, only a small number of people were asking for equality.

A hundred years ago, women and blacks were seen as “second-class citizens”.

A hundred and fifty years ago, blacks weren’t even considered human.

So, yes, while things still aren’t perfect, they’re undoubtedly improving. I think people just need to keep things in context, and learn that things like “reverse racism” and unbalanced “affirmative action” isn’t the answer. And, they need to keep in mind that a utopia will never come about… that while everyone has free will, there’ll always be biases and prejudices.

4

One new prejudice I can think of is the prejudice of people who are perhaps overly liberal against what they see as the stereotypical ‘jealous white guy’, in other words the prejudice against the people who are claiming reverse discrimination.

5

See http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=62985.

It’s essentially the same thing, just not as nice as maybe it could have been.

Of course, I took a bath in that thread, so…

And if you think I’m putting anything up now, you must be out of your mind. Collounsbury would have me for lunch.

6

According to The U.S. Census Report on Poverty - 1999 Statistics, 7.7% of whites (non-Hispanic) are below the poverty level. Compares this to 23.6% for Blacks and 22.8% for Hispanics.

Tiered 1999 mean income statistics from the U.S. Census Historical Trends on Income Inequality (Middle Class):

(From lowest fifth to hightest fifth, then the highest 5%)
Whites…$10,954…$25,926…$42,729…$65,620…$139,313…$244,129
Blacks…$5,889…$15,864…$28,166…$46,146…$96,174…$153,428

Economically, at least, it is still the white man’s world, so don’t anyone kid himself about how racism is some anachronism, that it’s a word employed by silly liberals needlessly. Whether we like it or not, we must admit that whites do enjoy the economic privilege of their race. There is no “new prejudice” that has resulted in a new lower class, this time populated by us poor white guys. There are no statistics I am aware of that support all the outrage I hear personally regarding “reverse discrimination,” and how that has led to minorities having all the power and control.

Has there been improvement? Yes, in some areas. But PLEASE do not embrace the notion that discrimination is a thing of the past. We should all of us be outraged by the statistics above. We should all be seeking a remedy (and that remedy should include addressing root causes like education).

7

You said it.

Finally, statistics to put me in my place. No one did that in the other specified thread.

My time of self-pity is over.

Thank you, Bob Cos, for making me a better person, a contented person once again :smiley: .

Remember, you can only learn from your mistakes if you first make them.

8

Can we PLEASE stop saying, “reverse discrimination?” Discrimination is discrimination. Racism is racism. Doesn’t matter whether it’s white against black, black against white, German against Chinese, Irish against Indian, etc etc. It’s all racism/discrimination. There’s nothing, “reverse” about it.

9

I have to agree on the term “reverse racism”. it makes me want to scream every time I read it or hear it.

The white, male, heterosexual, and Christian people on this planet should realize that 2/3 of the planet’s population is Asian, half the people are women, 10% are homosexual (?), and 70% of the people are NOT Christians.

Our society has improved but it still has a long ways to go, discrimination and racism are a disease that I do not ever think will be cured, at some point it may go into remission but it will always be there waiting to strike down the ignorant.

10

Well, there are no surprises in this thread. It’s just another round of simple-minded, sanctimonious caterwauling by a bunch of liberal gasbags.

And it’s off to the BBQ pit with this one! :stuck_out_tongue:

11

Still, somehow I think that Scylla was talking about America. Not the world.

12

“Reverse racism” is simply an easy and cutesy way to refer to those who have been mostly discriminated against in the past discriminating against their discriminators now. Kinda like “turnabout” or “poetic justice” in some people’s minds (not mine… I’ve always held that it’s an idiotic practice).

It’s simply one of those “non-terms”, like “compassionate conservative” :smiley:

13

Does anyone have good statistics on what the male/female pay gap is? Last I heard, it was an average of about 80 female cents for every male dollar. I tried to do a search for information on this, and the only sources I could find were pretty dubious.

I’m not certain what the gap IS, but I firmly believe that one still exists. Another way in which “better” doesn’t necessarily mean “good.”

-L

14

Accroding to U.S. Census Statistics (what the hell, I’ll keep going to this well till it runs dry), making no distinctions for anything other than gender, 1999 female mean income is $21,311, compared to $38,352 as the mean for men. This includes anyone 15 and older. Using this to calculate the gap, females receive about 56 cents to every $1 a male earns.

15

I’d imagine that in general the two are generally results of their birth, not cause and effect. For example, I was born white and middle-class, I did not enter the middle class as a result of my paleness and inability to dance.

16

Gender pat gap statistics are very often misused and misunderstood. The example above, just looking at the mean income for both the genders, tells us little or nothing about the state of gender discrimination. Does that figure include all women, or just working women? If it includes all women, then the mean will necessarily be drawn down by stay-at-home wives and mothers, which says nothing about the state of gender equality, except that more women than men tend to work in the home.

The figure also does not take into account differences in education and experience which would tend to increase the income of men. Now, these disparities tell us something of at least the state of gender discrimination in the past, since men, composing the majority of the work force, would have accumulated more experience and education, therefore increasing their income.

In order to garner some kind of meaningful information about the pay gap, one would have to identify how much women earn, on the average, for doing the exact same jobs, with the exact same level of education and experience. As you might imagine, this is not an easy thing to measure. Comparing jobs in order to identify two that are the “same” is difficult because job titles and descriptions do not always reflect exactly what work the employee performs.

So, while I don’t doubt that women generally get shafted in the paycheck area, I hate hearing pay gap statistics because they are almost always presented with little explanation of what exactly they measure and the issue is far too complicated to be distilled into one figure (70 cents on the dollar, or somesuch.)

Anyway, I know that among my demographic (college students), using personal observation and anecdote, I know that the women I know are pulling in a lot more money than the men. Waitressing is the most prominent cause of this disparity. Women are easily able to get a job as a waitress and make lots of money from tips. Say what you want about what this says about the state of gender equality (it could easily be considered degrading for the women involved, and I might sympathize somewhat with that sentiment), but the fact is that it’s a lot easier for the women I know to make money than for the men. Heck, it’s hard for me to find a job at all. (I’m a guy with long hair.)

17

We are all individuals. Your race and gender have little to nothing to do with how much money you will make. However, believing that you will not make as much money as a white male can result in your making of less money because of lower self-esteem, laziness, and the willingness to settle for less income for the same job. Starting salary at many jobs is determined, in part, by what the person being hired demands. Many people are making less money than they would be because they accepted the first salary offered to them. If a woman or minority expects to be paid less, then that person may very well end up being paid less because of their expectation. As for laziness and low self-esteem, the idea that “I can’t make it in a white male’s world” is much more common than it should be and the people that believe it are less attractive to employers because their belief influences their behavior. The vast majority of the responsibility for what happens in any individual’s life is caused entirely by the individual itself.

18

They still apply and you haven’t gotten past them unless you love and respect your fellow man. All of them. When you do, there’s no need to classify them.

19

So, that settles it then. Since the “vast majority of the responsibility for what happens in any individual’s life is caused entirely by the individual itself” [sic] then all those blacks below the poverty line (roughly 3 times the percentage experienced by whites) just have a character defect. The 35 million individual blacks in the population who were the source of the statistics previously provided are, as you pointed out, just less ambitious and more lazy than us white people. It’s as simple as that. Turns out my cranky, old Uncle Lou was right after all. Thanks for this amazing insight.:rolleyes:

20

But don’t you remain middle class more easily as a result of your race and the advantages available to you? Your privilege is a result of the circumstances of your birth and of the ongoing influence of your surroundings. This influence, unless the statistics compiled from tens of millions of people are incorrect, is likely to be different for you (and me) than it is for others of the less-pale variety.

Your children are likely to be born above the poverty line, and the cycle continues.