Stink Fish Pot's movie questions of the week - Goodfellas

Cafe Society
1

One of my favorite mob movies of all time, Goodfellas…

However, as all movies watched a hundred times, questions arise. And since this one was based on a true story, I figure someone has either read a book or knows the story well enou to help me out.

So here they are, in no order of importance.

1). When Tommy is whacked instead of being made, Henry says it was payback for Billy Bats. Now the only people who knew about Billy Bats being killed by Tommy and Jimmy was Henry, who wasn’t part of the actual killing, but he did participate in the removal of the body, burial, and covered up the murder to protect Tommy from Paulie. So the only person who would have tatted Tommy out was either Jimmy or the bartender, correct?

Now if it was the bartender, Jimmy would have killed him. So I assume it was Jimmy. But why would Jimmy do it? He wasn’t a rat, and even though he could protect himself by telling the story in a way that didn’t implicate him, I just can’t see Jimmy or Henry ratting on Tommy. Anyone have any clues on what happened here?

2). As a follow-up to question 1), if the Italians knew that Tommy killed Billy Bats, they had to also know a Jimmy Conway had a part in the murder, as well as Henry, even if it was just to transport the body and bury it. Why kill Tommy, an Italian, and leave Jimmy and Henry (two non-Italians) alone?

3). I was thinking about the Lufthansa heist, and the claim it was between $4-5 million. Jimmy gave some money to Paulie, Henry got a piece, and probably Tommy. But he didn’t give them a lot of money and he killed everyone else associated with the robbery. So, he should have been sitting pretty on about $3.5-4 million for himself. Correct? What did he do with all of the money that he had to work so much after the robbery, including taking inventory of goods in a store when Karen Hill went to see him about Henry and get some money. Was it ever explained why Jimmy just didn’t shut down and retire with all of his cash?

That’s all for now.

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  1. Probably Bats’ men who witnessed the confrontation between him and Tommy (“Go get your fuckin’ shinebox”). In the book (and in reality), the killing took place a few weeks after the confrontation, although the movie makes it look like it was later that same night. IIRC, Tommy had gone around saying that he was going to “take care of Billy” before killing him, so word was probably going around even before the killing.

  2. They couldn’t know for sure if Henry and Jimmy were involved. And they had to get a go-ahead from Paulie to kill Tommy, but he probably wouldn’t give the OK to take out Henry and Jimmy on top of that, since they were his top earners.

  3. Would have been too obvious. The feds could have easily pulled a Capone on him.

3

(Based purely off the film, I never read the book or researched the actual events)

I thought most of the Lufthansa people got their money which is why they were pissing Jimmy off with new furs and cars at the Christmas party. They were killed because Jimmy saw them as stupid and leads back to him but I’m not sure that he recovered the cash from them all.

Still, most of the cash would have stayed with Jimmy. I never thought much about it and just figured he enjoyed the lifestyle and the respect versus being some guy sitting poolside in Miami. Remember how excited he was at Tommy being made because it would be like him being made. He liked being in the family, he was good at it, his bosses respected him and he wasn’t ready to leave that life.

Him “taking inventory” was (I thought) him checking out the score from a heist, graft, shaking down some guy or whatever. It’s not as though he was working a retail job for wages.

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in the book hill mentions how jimmy stole because he liked it more than the money. he said if you offered jimmy a billion dollars to never steal again he would turn it down, then he would try to steal it from you.

I don’t know what happened to the money. jimmy Burke eventually said the money was cursed. that heist was everyone’s undoing.

5

Thanks for this answer. Makes total sense now. The movie makes it seem as if it was done that same night, at least to me, because as Tommy is leaving he said “keep him here, don’t let him leave.” But if the murder took place weeks after the confrontation, they could have pieced things together from the witnesses that night. Add to that his bragging, and I guess it was a no-brainer. To kill Henry and Jimmy on top of Tommy made no sense, as they were never going to be made anyway, and there were probably no witnesses to the murder anyway, and Henry and Jimmy both would have never bragged about “going to get him” before the murder.

Does the book state that all three of them were present at Bats’ murder, or was it just Tommy, who then got Harry and Jimmy to help with the burial?

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Real life answer - Paul Vario ( “Paulie” ) apparently knew about it and gave up Thomas DeSimone ( “Tommy” ) to the Gambino family over a vendetta involving Henry Hill’s wife ( who Vario was sleeping with ).

Real life answer - Even though Jimmy Burke largely precipitated the killing, Vario was apparently uninterested in giving him up. Supposition - Burke was a major earner and very dangerous with his own crew. No reason to sacrifice him, unlike the unstable and altogether less important DeSimone. More to the point it was DeSiome Vario was pissed at, not Burke.

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Now that I think about it, you may he right about the inventory Jimmy was taking. It could have very well been merchandise from a truck heist. It looked like a store front, but that also looked like a run down part of town and there want any foot traffic there, so it was probably just stolen stuff, like you suggest.

I never thought it was a retail job, but almost like he was taking inventory of his own store, or antique shop or something, but now that I think about it, that just doesn’t make sense at all.

As far as the Lufthansa money goes, I was under the impression guys were spending the money that was due them, but didn’t receive it yet. The only person I remember getting money was Henry, and I believe there was a mention to giving Pauli his tribute. But I think Henry the narrator mentioned that Jimmy had all of the money, and he was keeping all of it. The fur coat and car were bought on credit. Putting cash from a heist like that back in circulation so close to the robbery would have been a very bad move. It could possibly be traced.

You make a good point. I now remember Henry as narrator saying how Jimmy loved to steal. “He actually enjoyed it” was the line I remember.

I wonder if some of that money is still hidden somewhere. Jimmy, if he was still alive, should have made parole in the early 2000’s.

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This is an interesting nugget. I wouldn’t think that Paulie and Henry’s wife were having an affair. I thought that was taboo in the mafia? And I’m not sure I understand why Tommy was given up because Paulie was sleeping with Karen hill. I guess I’ll have to read the book.

Tommy always fascinated me as a character. He was a pure sociopath, and it seemed that if he wasn’t in organized crime, he would have become a serial killer. He just wasn’t stable. I wonder if the Mafia would keep a guy like that around IRL, since he would be such a loose cannon and make mistakes.

Makes sense to keep Jimmy alive, since he was such a good earner. If they had to give up someone for the a Bats murder, Tommy does make the most sense,

9

It’s actually not in that book, but another one. But as that link wiki recounts it, the story goes that Tommy tried to essentially date-rape Karen Hill one evening when Henry was in the slammer. Her lover Paulie and husband Henry Hill were none to pleased with this, which led directly to DeSimone taking a dirt nap by the nice neat expedient of turning him over to another family for the unsanctioned murders ( more than one ) he had committed. That way Tommy got his comeuppance, but everything is “above board” and “legal” ( Mafia-style legal and above board :smiley: ).

There were a number of genuine psychopaths like this charmer - if they were growing to thrive anywhere, that would be the place to do it. But it seems most of the hotheads like DeSimone ended up dieing by the sword. They were useful, but at the end of the day they usually seemed to outlive their usefulness when, like DeStefano above or loose cannons like Roy DeMeo, they began to worry or annoy their associates more than they helped them.

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From what I recall of the book Paulie was sleeping with Henry Hill’s wife. Tommy made a (failed) pass at Hill’s wife. I think Tommy tried to rape her after, I don’t remember. But Paulie was pissed about that, so he gave Tommy up for the Billy Batts killing.

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It’s the Mafia. Everyone is a sociopath or psychopath to some degree. The ones that are sane enough to function are the ones who end up running things. The ones that aren’t, end up in a landfill.

Hell, I suspect at least part of the reason Jimmy and Henry weren’t killed is that just about everyone in the Mafia has had some experience of dealing with a friend who was just a little too crazy. At least they didn’t rat him out, so they were showing loyalty, which is something Mafia guys like to think they value.

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In reality, the cops figured it was his gang within a couple of days and they were under heavy surveillance. Right after the heist they knew Jimmy and John Gotti were the only people who could have pulled it off. Samuel L Jackson’s character (too lazy to look it up) had gotten stoned and parked the getaway van at his girlfriend’s house after the heist. The cops found it and his prints were inside. The FBI knew he had been hanging with Jimmy’s crew, so they were watching Jimmy’s gang almost immediately.

And yeah, the “inventory” was likely stolen. I seem to recall him offering Karen to come check out some “swag,” which is slang for stolen goods.

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This thread sheds some light on your second question in particular.

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Stacks was the driver you were referring to, and Tommy killed him after they found the truck with his prints.

I don’t remember Jimmy talking about swag, but I do remember him telling Karen to pick out a couple of dresses. But I think it amounts to the same thing.

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More to it, Karen obviously suspected that she was going to get murdered by mafia goons if she went in there. Which isn’t a common problem in your more reputable stores and warehouses.

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I found it in this youtube video. He offers her some dresses and she starts off in one direction then he points her in another direction and says “It’s in the store on the corner. It’s swag so I got it down the corner.” But, that implies the store or whatever he is in is not full of swag so, yeah, he’s “working” like a regular guy at his warehouse/store or something.

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Well, the warehouse he was in could have been filled with stolen pirate treasure and he still would have sent her down the row. It wasn’t about what was in that building, it was about him wanting to send Karen to his associates.

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One of the things I took away from Goodfellas and Casino is that when the useful psychopath starts to go off the deep end, even hinting that something should be done about it is dangerous as hell. When Ace sent a message back to the bosses that maybe Nicky should lay low for a while in Vegas, it got back to Nicky, who immediately set up a meeting with Ace in the desert - “I gave myself fifty-fifty.” Even when everyone knows it’s time to take the psycho out, no one wants to bell the cat.

Ooh, the infamous license plate scene. I always assumed the dresses were from a recent heist, so would be easily identifiable, whereas the stuff in the warehouse was either old swag or “legitimate” stuff for laundering purposes.

19

License plate scene? What does that mean?

I finally heard him say “swag”

What is the guy doing behind Jimmy in the store? When he walks Karen outside the store, you can see some guy in shadows behind him, and it looks like he’s holding a gun, but he also looks like he’s looking at the boxes. I never noticed him before.

20

Jump about 2:15 in. Watch the license plate of the brown station wagon in front of Karen’s car. As she peels out, see how the license plate changes color? The fake 1970’s era yellow license plate they put on the car for filming falls forward, and the you can see the white 1990 license plate the car actually had. It’s a lot easier to see the plate fall on the DVD version or TV.