I don’t feel that either the American government or the American people owe any apologies to anybody.
The Afghani government allowed an organization–Al Quaida–to use it’s soil to plan & mount an attack on our country in an unprovoked manner. No hostile acts of any kind had been aimed at Afghanistan prior to that event. If we do not act, thousands more of our civilians will be killed.
I, fo one, never blindly follow my government. But I don’t listen to the bitching of fools, either. :mad:
If the civilian deaths could have been avoided–good.
But war doesn’t work that way, & it can’t.
The OP’s assertion that our conduct is somehow inappropriate is assinine .
I thought the topic of conversation here was the US - so I imagine that is why samboy referred to the US.
Except that if they print negative coverage, or suggest that toning down the rhetoric might be a good idea, then they will be accused of being “unpatriotic” and “un-American” - as indeed has samboy for suggesting that it would be good to “question, question, question” the government.
Memo to Bosda: samboy didn’t say that America’s conduct is “somehow inappropriate”. The OP says that maybe the death toll is higher than reported in the US.
“Of any kind” is stretching it a bit: Missiles aimed at bin Laden in 1998. Or indirectly - the entire history of arming the Mujaheddin against the Soviets during the '80s.
But you already knew that, right?
On the subject of the OP - democracy grew from debate. I am fortunate enough to live in a democratic part of the world. But the democratic alliance is now global. I question the actions of my government, I question the government of my adopted home, and I question the actions of your government. I’m privileged to have the right to do it. By devaluing the opinions of people who are currently questioning the actions of your government, spooje: “if you have a problem with it, I don’t care”, rather than engaging in debate, I think you are indeed edging just that little way towards “obedience”. Mind you, this is the pit, isn’t it? Goats, etc.
OK I agree it wasn’t overtly hostile, but it wasn’t exactly beneficial, was it? You want those guys running your country, armed to the teeth with high-tech weapons? They were terrorists back then, too. You naughty piece of fish-food.
Elenfair
Im reading “The Language Instinct” by Steven Prinker which is heavily influenced by Chomsky. spooje and everyone of course
Now I am talking in general and not specifically about the post s11 events in Afghanistan but I would like to say first that I do not support what America is doing there. Too many people are dying and as much as people want to believe it they are not all bomb-carrying terrorist. But that is my informed opinion and I have a right to it.
The “I don’t care what you think” attitude of the American population combined with the influencing nature of US foreign policy is what creates/fuels anti-American sentiment around the world and eventually leads to terrorism. America is a superpower and as such it has influence over many countries and regions. This is so even if you don’t care about it. Now what happens when a State Department policy has a negative effect (at best nobodies perfect) on the lives of people in another country? They can complain to your government but like I have said, America is a very powerful nation and their voice may not always be heard. One group who is in a position to change the relevent policy is the American Voter. So here we have someone who is pissed off about something the US is doing in/to their country and many of the people who are in a position to actually influence this policy don’t even know what is going on or dont give a fuck.
America is not an all knowing entity which always acts for the good of humankind, it is a country which is run by people. These people are not perfect, sometimes they are misguided or act ignaorantly or act selfishly. Americas’ foreign policy has not been perfect in the past and probably wont be perfect in the future but if Americans are aware of what is going on they can take positive steps to fix the problems.
Complete ignorance toward someone over whom you have considerable influence will lead to frustration and anger. How many people stop and listen to what these “American-bashers” are saying or try and understand the situation. It makes no difference if you change your mind or not, at least now you have an informed opinion of the situation. And you can proudly say "I don’t agree with what you say… "
And I refuse to put in the obligatry "I don’t support the Taliban but " bullshit.
I may not have a clear idea of what a “sodding little flake” might be, but I do know that the riposte “naughty piece of fish food” made me spit my lunch all over my keyboard.
Probably because the Soviet soldiers were invited by the legal government to help fighting rebels that wanted to overthrow it. Much the same way as the US precense in Viet Nâm.
Very nice OP samboy. It’s too bad people can’t read anything about being critical and questioning the gov’t lately without also accusing the writer of being an America-hater.
There’s a difference between hating the US and not supporting it’s actions, folks.
There’s a difference between not wanting Afghan civilians to die, and liking the al-Qaeda and thinking they’re swell.
The actual name of that particular country in the diacritical script is Viê.t Nam. The dot I’m showing under the ê indicates the tone, and is the so-called “internet method” to type it in non-Vietnamese font.
This brought to you by your friendly graduate of the DLI’s Vietnamese (Hanoi) course, Monty.
Do y’all remember, a few months back, a Congresswoman from Georgia (I think) was bitching and moaning about the food packets that the military was dropping in Afghanistan to help feed the civilian population? She complained that the food packets looked too much like cluster munitions. She was wrong, in my opinion, but c’est la vie. It caused a minor stink for about three days, then it went away.
samboy (and others), this might be the reason so many Americans get bent out of shape when others question our policies. It probably doesn’t always resonate around the world, but the U.S. is constantly being questioned – by its own citizens. We’re accustomed to debating every facet of our government. Hell, we spent a week talking about a former President’s alledged hair appointment on a runway.
It might not be on the top of your mind at the moment, but the U.S. spent a month after 9/11 gathering information and building coalitions before beginning its military campaign. Americans were screaming for action, and yet for a few weeks nothing visible was happening. To the average American, this was restraint on a ridiculous scale.
We’ve also seen the typical war propoganda from the other side, as well. I recall the infamous “baby milk factory” sign on a heap of rubble that used to be an Iraqi building. So the Taliban (among others) claim that thousands of Afghan civilians have died in the bombing/ground war is usually met with rolled eyes. Not saying it isn’t true, but the general reaction is ‘here we go again.’
Finally, to point out the irony in your posts – you’re saying Americans should question the government more regarding the number of civilian deaths, and yet your source for the higher number of civilians deaths is a study done by an American professor at an American university funded, in part, by tax dollars. If that isn’t America questioning the American government, then what qualifies?
FIRST you read the OP. THEN you spew verbal diarrhea over it. That way you maintain at least a little bit of dignity.
The OP wasn’t even about the same thing as your post, dumbass. His post was NOT about how the entire war is unjustified – it’s not about that there are civilian casualties – IT IS ABOUT THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS PROBABLY LYING ABOUT SAID CASUALTIES.
