Stop or I'll, um, gee...

I’ve seen some bizarre things done under those so-called “Zero Tolerance” policies at the schools, but this one.

FTR. No, I’m not in favor of kids bringing in weapons to school. But, when (as has happened) I get told that I can’t pack a plastic knife in my son’s lunch so he can spread his cream cheese onto a bagel, well, that sort of absurdity, I feel, creates disrespect for rules.

Anyhow, today, I see, in Poniac MI, school officials have suspended a third grader (which would make the kid, what, about 8 years old?) for possession of a One and a half inch long medallion in the shape of a gun. The officials acknowledge that there wasn’t any danger of some one getting hurt, but were concerned that some one might fear getting hurt.

I mean really. WTF. Better purge all of the magazines in the library, too, for pictures of weapons. better, too, outlaw pens and paper, for one could ‘draw’ a weapon and that sounds like a challenge, and might scare some body. Oh, and put down that toothpick - there’s sharp points on that one.

I can’t believe it

Argh! I hope this blows over before I have kids - I’d have to bitch-slap someone if my kid couldn’t use a freaking plastic knife at lunch!

How about the 11 year old girl suspended because of her Tweety Bird wallet? What are these jokers thinking?!

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… people are stupid.

And this Zero-tolerance shit doesn’t prevent much either. Someone at my old high school got their throat slit last week.

So what about wood shop? Are they going to start teaching them to carve soap with dull spoons, so that knives and saws aren’t used? I had a friend who was suspended for half a year for having a CO2 pellet gun in his locker. He had let a friend of his borrow it, and it was returned to him at the start of the school day. It wasn’t really his fault he had it there, but they didn’t care about that.

And I got suspended once for punching someone who was trying to wipe blood on me. In the time of AIDS and other nasty diseases transmitted by blood, I feel as justified defending myself for a situation like this, as I would if someone had a knife or gun.

I just remembered this too. Recently, at my old Jr High, a student was arrested for truancy. She refused to go to school because she had been repeatedly threatned with violence by a group of other students. She told a teacher, but after she was arrested she was told that she did not go through the correct procedure and therefore recieved no help.

My cousin attends that school, and will attend my high school soon. She’s a sweet, non-aggressive girl. What the hell can I do to protect her? :frowning:

And is it just me, or are these people trying to solve the wrong problem? Arresting a girl for truancy when she is threatned, suspending a third grader with a hankerin’ for bagels and cream cheese rather than preventing the 10th grader who slits a classmates throat early on, before he gets the chance, even the idea.

Schools seem to be bastions for this kind of illogic. I think it’s because educators continually commiserate with other educators, speaking their “edu-speak,” and they become worlds unto themselves.

A few years back in Michigan, a high school kid was suspended for wearing a T-shirt to school that said ‘Korn.’ (That’s a rock and roll band, for those of you who don’t know.) The shirt didn’t have any objectionable art or anything else - it was just a plain shirt with the word ‘Korn.’

And I was just reading a few weeks ago about an elementary kid being suspended or some such in Minnesota. His class was going to visit a football practice by the Minnesota Vikings, and the kid refused to cover up the Green Bay Packers jersey he was wearing.

Cuckoo! Cuckoo!

Stop it Milo it upsets the balance of the universe for us to agree on things. (smiley faces aren’t allowed in the pit, are they???)

I remember the Korn one well. One administrator got on my son’s case for a t-shirt - til he said “my mom bought it for me”

Bizarre. And, get this one. Last year, my son broke off with psycho bitch girlfriend at Christmas. In MAY a female, adult friend (about 22) of PSBG came onto school property, sought out my son, and in front of witnesses, threatened to kick his ass etc.

the PSBG was brought in with her mom. that was it. Nothing happened to the adult female friend, but my son was told to stay away from the girls’ soccer games 'cause it might upset PSBG. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Guns are the sore spot. Behold:

Paper Gun Costs Newport News Student 2 days at Home

Sixth grader targeted for pro-gun remarks: ‘A’ student defends 2nd Amendment, flagged as violence risk

Anyone remember when schools used to have shooting clubs? sigh…

This thread, and the links contained within it, are some of the scariest things I have read in several weeks. Especially Max’s links…shudder…

Spelling America with a “k”…

Actually, Yes I do. My School district had a shooting range for small caliber weapons. It was under the gym. I had a great time learning to shoot rifles during class.

I think of some of the things I did during my school years would have gotten me expeled three or four times in todays environment. However, I managed to graduate as a National Merit Scholar, with scholarships to several universities. AND, I never hurt anyone on campus. (Well, Ok, there was the guy I fell on during the band football game. Broke some ribs. I was very clumsy.)

:BTW, I wasn’t a very good speller even then. My one real weakness. Sorry.:

PLease don’t misinterpret me here, I am no apologist for our largely loathesome public educational system, but on the flipside, I do have to say: It really seems like a no win situation dealing with kids and violence post columbine. The facts of it are, there are some crazy kids out there who need help (or institutionalization whatever), ther will always be crazy kids and if one crazy kid decides to kill my kids one day in the cafeteria, there isn’t a lot I can do about it really. Its like lightning, or bus crashes in a sense. Totally unpredictable.
But hack pop pshchologists start coming up with psychological profiles for the perps and this “But What BOUT THE CHILDREN” mentality reigns where you can’t as an educator, or school administrator, say “look, shit happens, its random, the kid just flipped”. So you cling blindly to these regulations because god forbid you allow the kid to wear a rifle pendant and ten years later he pulls a columbine. Cause people like us always ask “how could you be so stupid?”, but the parents of dead children ask louder and more publicly “how could you have allowed this to happen?” Even if there is only one of them for every several hundred thousand of us (WAG). It seems like a largely no win situation, from an administrative POV.

How about not letting shit go down?

And to think I’m going to be a school teacher in a few years. That should be interesting, given my opinion of this country’s education ideas.

It’s pretty fucking sad that things have come to this level of ridiculousness, but… they have. It’s insane that parents aren’t allowed to pack plastic knives for their kids lunches, and that 1 inch gun medallions are grounds for suspension, but you know that in the unlikely event that some kid got injured with said knife/medallion, whatever, that someone would sue. It appears to me that schools have no choice but to go with zero tolerance, in their own self interest.

I’m reminded of something that blew my mind that is somewhat relevant. Both of my parents have been teachers for 30+ years. Dad’s retiring this year after 31 years in the same school, same room. Just a few years ago, a student wore a fur coat to school. The girl was horsing around with friends, snagged it on a locker, and it tore. The parents sued the school for the cost of the coat because it was ruined on school grounds. Wha?? And shortly after that, fur coats were banned from school grounds. Within a year, some other parents tried to sue the school so that their children could wear their fur coats to school. WTF?

I guess my point is, what can the schools do to keep everyone safe and happy?

At the entrance to concert, I noticed a sign saying “no wallet chains allowed”. I jokingly said “I guess chains are allowed as long as they aren’t connected to a wallet”.

here are some interesting quotes:

“The letter, which was written by the principal,” Loutzenheiser said, "asked the students to take an oath to turn in their friends for suspicious activity, to vow to never defend themselves if attacked, and something to the effect of never to use a gun or other weapons. Derek simply told the principal, ‘I’m not signing that.’ [/quot]
WTF is a school doing asking their students to turn in their friends?


One time institutionalized high school student here.

I was locked up (not juvie really, just a school for ‘problem’ students, if you get my drift) halfway through my freshman year. Didn’t get out until I graduated 3.5 years later. Though, to be honest, I was a day student most of that time.

I had mono my junior year. I was out for about 3 weeks. When I returned to school I was wearing a Queen concert shirt (this was 1983 or 1984 so get off my back!). I was pulled aside by one of the administrators/nurses and told that, during my absence, it had been decided that all concert shirts had the risk of being ‘drug ideological’ in nature and were therefore banned. Given that the shirt in question had Freddie Mercury in drag with a whip I argued that it might have some ideology behind it but I doubted it was drugs.

Needless to say they weren’t exactly sympathetic. I wouldn’t take off the shirt (I had nothing else and I refused to turn it inside out) so I got suspended for the day.

Just to bring this all in line with the above ‘Korn’ shirt post…I just thought I’d point out that today’s kids in your everyday public schools are in the same position I was 20 years ago on a locked ward in a psychiatric hospital.

How 'bout them apples?

relic_11 I find that if there’s one thing a high school kid is scared of, it’s another, bigger kid, no longer in high school. So as long as you, or your sweet innocent cousin, know some of those - or if you are one - she shouldn’t have much trouble, because a lot of high school is all just people talking out their asses, but when they find out ‘cousin moe’ is 6’4" and has been arrested for beating a would-be mugger nearly to death with the mugger’s own club, well, your cousin should be pretty safe :wink: just keep the rumors goin’.

punk snot dead,

I don’t like the “you can’t defend yourself” zero-tolerance for violence. I will fully encourage my child to defend himself regardless of the rules if attacked by another.

Well, if you’re talking about trying to stop up the toilets, I think that would be a fine prank to pull. Something tells me you’re not, though.

So tell me then, what are your suggestions? Not letting the shit go down? I can’t even tell how to argue this because I don’t know which side you’re even on here.
Personally, while I abhor the administration taking it upon themselves to ban everything that could conceivably do something to someone somewhere at sometime, I also think a couple dozen dead in a schoolyard isn’t quite something you can ignore. So where’s the middle ground? Who lets what shit go where?