*Originally posted by oldscratch *
But to me he does exist. And since I and alot of others believes He exist shouldn’t you respect the way another human being feels and not do it? I don’t go around saying Darwin Damn.
And one more point if he doesn’t exist why take use his name at all?
i’m with LaurAnge–i can’t think of any reason why a jew would object to someone saying “jesus h christ”. i know that a great many christians are under the impression that jews think jesus was a great prophet (much like muslims) but that’s just not the case…at least there’s been no indication of it from a) any of the jews i know and b) the course i teach (intro to jewish civilization)
I agree with you, Wildest Bill. I try to refrain from flinging expletives of any kind, but if one slips out, and I see it’s been offensive, I’ll apologize. HOWEVER, maybe you should relinquish that concern to God Himself…you’ll notice a drop in your stress level.
I guess saying, “Oh, God, that’s goooood!” during a sex act is out of the question too. It’s quite the opposite of cursing, though.
Wildest Bill –
For what ever it’s worth, I agree with you. But don’t you kind of think that you are fighting a losing battle here? I don’t personally go around trying to change anybody because unless they give me some sign that they are interested in my beliefs, which are the ‘born again’ variety, I keep my mouth shut. In other words, if somebody asks, I’ll answer, but I don’t volunteer information. But that is just me.
Oh and I am leaving. Still doing this from the office and I am tired and I don’t want to lose my wife so I will type responses tomorrow.
God Bless y’all even if y’all don’t want him too. Good night!
Oh for the love of the lord lantern Jaysas Wildest Bill as far as I’m concerned God did not instruct us in anything . He doesn’t exist in any form what-so-ever IMO . The guy who made up that rule instructed us and since it’s not against the law I’ll make my own mind up about what words I use.
And may the Laws of Nature look after you and yours . Have a good night .
A funny story about this topic that happened in Lake Wobegone as told by Garrison Keillor (700 Kbytes)
If that link doesn’t work for you click here.
I use it because it’s a handy phrase. It’s among the collection of commonly used “swear phrases” that I have at my disposal. I really don’t agree that using the word “God” is using the “Lord’s name” anyway… for the record. As for Jesus… well it works. I also agree that the whole “in vain” thing doesn’t mean “for cussing” … however I also don’t believe in the Bible, so there ya go. I don’t see any reason not to use them, though I do try not to swear around people I don’t know, or people who I know would be offended.
Personally, I think the use of “God Damn…” can actually be used in a positive way. (I am a theist, not a Christian)
Take for instance:
“God Damn you to hell.”
Essentially what you have just stated is that you have created such a huge blunder and I then wish God to Damn you. Easy enough.
Well, since I have family that is very Christian, I have mostly fallen out of the habit of saying “Jesus Christ!” when something bad in my eyes has just happened because I prefer not to offend my family.
Although, it too,"Jesus Christ, could be used in some good ways. Using "Jesus Christ,look at that sunset! is not stating anything bad, to me it would be saying that something is miraculous. BTW, if you are a Christian, it’s no different than saying “Oh Lord, look at that sunset!”
So, it would depend on the context with which a comment is used in my eyes.
how do you know it’s your Lord’s name that’s being taken in vain? I’ll grant you that the use of “Jesus” or “Christ” could be offensive to Christians, but it’s not just Christians, Jews and Moslems that worship a Lord God. If I use the word “God” as an exclamation, I’m in no way referring to a Christian God-figure. I mean, the Christian God is a good God, but he’s not my Lord, and my Lord hasn’t instructed me that taking His (or Her) name in vain is forbidden. So don’t assume I breaking one of your religions taboo’s by my choice of language–although I agree that “Goddamn” is a serious curse for those whose religion has a hell, and I don’t use it (much) due to respect for my neighbors with that belief.
Jesus H. Christ, am I tired of people thinking that they have a right to go through life without the possibility of being offended. Join the real world; accept that the right to free speech in the U.S. means that sometimes you’re gonna hear things you don’t wanna hear. You don’t have to listen to them, but you can’t insist that they go unsaid.
Christ on a cream cracker, the whole point of the first amendment is to protect unpopular speech. Deal.
Well Wildest, as a wiccan, I find mild discomfort in using your god’s names in vain myself… It is just such a habit from hearing others do it that I sometimes don’t even realise I am doing it… Fortunately the Wise and Great Homer J. Simpson gave us an alternative… Now when I am torqued, I say “Jebus!” Kinda sounds like yer god’s name, but it isn’t. Just don’t try to tell me that Gosh, Darn and such are in the same “vain” as God and Damn, 'cause they aren’t.
Taking a deity’s name in vain does not always mean cursing. It can mean calling upon that deity for a worthless reason (for example, calling upon a deity to make your roast turn out right) which would waste that deity’s time and effort. You must understand, at the time ('bout 1000-2000 years ago) and the place (Palestine, probably Roman at the time), people believed in deities closer to the old polytheistic ones. After all, monotheism was a brand new concept, and the commandments were written by and for people fresh out of their old, pre-Judaic ways. So swearing a blue streak is not mentioned in them. Calling upon a deity needlessly is.
Zeus on a Zither! How arrogant to think that your johnny-come-lately god is the one being refered to. And how small-minded of you to think that the only reason people swear is to somehow impress that anti-god of yours, the “devil”.
Bill - the usual translation of the commandment we’re discussing (the Fourth? Fifth? I can never remember if it comes before or after the mom&pop rule) is “don’t swear an oath in my name, and then break it” or “do not commit perjury in my name” - two moral, ethical laws, both crucial in maintaining an orderly society. The adjunction against speaking or writing the Explicit Name (that word they stoned people for in Life of Brian, and which I’m too damn superstitious to write) is from a different, unrelated source.
This is only the Jewish point of view, not the Christian, but you might want to know what the Framers of the document were thinking at the time - or what they thought God meant.
BTW - Jesus has the same relevance to Judaism as Buddha, Mohammed, Lao-Tze and Thor have to Christianity; namely, none whatsoever. Sorry.
I believe that Wildest Bill has a point. As I see it, it’s all a question of respect. It doesn’t matter if you find it personally offensive or not. It doesn’t matter whether you think that Christianity, or indeed any religion, is bullshit. What does matter is that, to this particular person, it’s offensive. If you want him to respect your atheism/agnostism/any-other-ism, you better be prepared to respect him.
And saying that you are not using Bill’s God’s name when you, for lack of a better word, curse, is just a huge cop-out. I’ve got a really terrible analogy prepared if anyone is interested.
Thanks Alessan! I was getting kinda worried there… It makes sense to respect Jesus as a philosopher or something, but…
Every so often, my mother, who is a born-again Christian, tries to get me to stop saying “goddammit.” “Buddha-damn!” is what she suggests, which I take to mean she thinks it’s perfectly ok to use some false god’s name in vain. (Yes, I know Buddha isn’t a god as such, but she doesn’t get that.) Well, since I regard the Judeo-Christian God and its ancillaries such like Jesus Christ as false gods, by the same token I feel free to use them in my creative cursing.
Sorry, Wildest Bill, but your position on this is ridiculous. You could just as well make a list of things people shouldn’t be allowed to do because their practice offends Christians–taken to it’s logical extreme, that leads to theocracy. Neither my life nor my language is subject to your approval, nor will it ever be.