So I feel like there have been a lot of threads lately like this one.
I have to wonder… what’s the point?
I’m a big fan of Obama. I voted for Obama. I volunteered for Obama. I like Obama a lot. I’m also a human being. Thus, I’m 100% sure that I have at least somewhat of a double standard. I admit it. When I see things Obama did, I’m more likely to be forgiving or understanding than if Bush had done the same things. Guilty. You caught me. Now what?
It’s one thing to actually discuss an interesting gray area situation and see what the right thing to do is, and when one is doing so, one should be aware that pretty much all of us have opinions going in about some of the actors in the case, and are likely to be not totally objective, etc, etc. But what’s the point of starting a thread which, even if you somehow utterly and completely prove the point you’re utterly and completely trying to prove, all you’ve proven is that some people on the internet (just like EVERY HUMAN BEING WHO HAS EVER LIVED) aren’t totally objective?
Sheesh.
Sorry, I can’t agree. I volunteered for the Obama campaign, made several bazillion phone calls, drove people around, and so forth; obviously I voted for him. It’s entirely valid to call bullshit when he does things for which he criticized former President Bush.
Well I can agree with you Skald. I view the job of being POTUS as being the #1 employee of the country. Not the ruler, the employee in charge of getting things done.
And this employee is under continual performance review. Continual review. And it is perfectly fine to expect follow up on things that he said he would do. Pressure to perform is a valid expectation. Bull shit should be called when needed.
The Bush excuse should be expected to wear thin soon.
I don’t think the OP is talking about threads critical of Obama, I think he’s talking about Gotcha Ya-like threads holding Obama supporters to task for not complaining loud enough. The linked is “Do you think it’s okay if Obama does it?” not “Should Obama release the photographs” or “What should be done with these detainees?”.
It’s unfortunate that there is such partisanship (and it’s not solely on the right) that interferes with dialogue. Much of these issues bring up thorny and complex questions with philosophic and pragmatic nuances that are lost in the naya-naya Limbaughesque faux outrage. People, stop trying to make your side look good – right or left, it’s a complicated world and this message board should be able to handle discussion without frat boy high fives all 'round.
I agree in that too much of our political thought is devoted to ‘gotcha’ moments, but I also think that MaxtheVool has a valid point regarding elevating the discourse.
That being said, what I’ve read of the other thread was not particularly nasty or mean-spirited.
I’d have a lot more respect for OP’s like Moto’s if they were phrased like:
“Obama is continuing a policy of the Bush administration, and I support him.”
Or even:
“Obama is continuing a policy of the Bush administration. Do you agree with this?”
Instead, we get:
“Obama is continuing a policy of the Bush administration. ur a hypocrit lol.”
Which really seems to be intended to get a rise out of the liberal hordes. Actually, I’m not sure why broad accusations of hypocrisy among Board members aren’t confined to the Pit.
Anyway, here’s what I felt like posting in the GD thread:
I really doubt many (vocal, Internet or otherwise) conservatives have the stones to say something like my first hypothetical OP out loud. I’ve always been willing to examine the policies of the Bush administration on their merits, so it’s never particularly torqued me to say things like “NCLB and the Medicare prescription drug benefit are great in concept, but incredibly piss-poor in execution,” or “I’m really glad he bumped up that AIDS relief money for Africa, but the global gag rule is pretty fucked up.” But I sincerely doubt I’d hear the same from the likes of Moto.
I dunno. Maybe they’re still all wound up from getting their asses handed to them, when, just four years ago, it looked like they were on their way to a Thousand Year Downhill Coast. Whatever.
IIRC, this was a big favorite with december. I remember one occassion he posted a quote from “the president”, everyone blasted said quote, and the he revealed that the “president” was Clinton. Like we’d change our minds if it wasn’t Bush.
I think those types of threads contributed to his banning.
The tu quoque has been, for all the time I’ve been here, Mr. Moto’s metier. There is just something about the way that he thinks about issues. The right or wrong doesn’t matter, the outcome doesn’t matter, it’s simply just a matter of being able to counter some move of your opponent with one of your own.
Eh, I hated Bush with a fiery passion, and I voted for and support Obama, but I try to be as consistent as humanly possible (note try) and most political posters here, well, don’t. And that’s being nice. Obama should be called on the same types of bullshit Bush was called on.
I voted for Obama and generally like and support him, but I will admit to being pissed off at him about several things. Nothing that the righties would appreciate, though, such as:
–Not supportive of gay marriage
–Scoffs at the idea of legalizing marijuana
–Not prosecuting people who tortured
–Ken Salazar is not my ideal Secretary of the Interior, let’s put it that way
I wasn’t happy when he had that asshole Rick Warren speak at his inauguration either. IOW, Obama isn’t liberal enough for me. Shocking!
Does this exonerate me from being a hypocrite, or do I have to condemn, loudly and publicly, everything single thing he does that I don’t agree with? There has never been a president with whom I agreed about everything. Doesn’t that go without saying? I’m not sure what is expected of us, since these folks on the right certainly didn’t open Pit threads when they disagreed with Bush, so they are just as guilty of this double standard IMO.
It’s just that, 2 years ago, no one here was singing kumbaya and saying the Bushies were just being understanding and forgiving of a guy they liked and we should respect that.
Absolutely. But my point is, a question like “should further torture photos be released” is a legitimately interesting one, with arguments on both sides. Thus, it would be a nice discussion to have. But instead we’re getting, as black rabbit put it, “ur a hypocrit lol”.
Isn’t it a matter of cutting the new guy some slack? It is for me. Painful as it is to recall, I did that with Bush too at first, though I thought he was a pretty stupid, clueless, smug motherfucker. Still, I bought his WMD affrontery for a while (on the thesis “No one would have the balls to flat-out lie about THIS when it’s clear that that if there is NO evidence or even poor evidence for WMDs, they’ll look like liars and traitors”).
Now I loves me some Obama, so I’m inclined to cut him far more slack, on account that he’s shown that he has a little brains and judgment, even when I think he’s wrong (as on prosecuting torture and “endangering” the lives of U.S.servicemenandwomen.) But maybe I’ll learn that there is no point in cutting slack for Presidents who I think are dickheads in the first place, 'cuz I get no credit for doing so anyway, and my guy doesn’t get cut any by Pubbies.
I see nothing wrong at all with calling attention to Democrat double standards or the double standards of those who support them. In the end it’s nothing else but hypocrisy, and it’s always worth pointing out hypocrites whatsoever their political hue.
That was the point - you did change your minds, and instantly.
They certainly did - the lefties hereabouts hate being caught in those kinds of blatant self-contradictions.
But that is the point. “If Bush says it, it’s a lie! If Clinton (or Hilary or Pelosi or Biden or Gore) says it, it’s the truth” is a contradiction, or a piece of hypocrisy, or call it what you will. If Bush wants to retain prisoners indefinitely, it is an atrocity against human rights! Impeach him! If Obama wants to do the same, he is just keeping his options open, and - look over there! A bird!
You people do this kind of thing all the time. Which demonstrates that what upsets you is not the principle -it’s the party. IOKIADDI.