In an earlier thread, jjimm posted that in England, the procedure taught is to put it in neutral and engage the parking brake. That way if you’re hit from behind, the car in less likely to move forward as all four wheels are locked. They’re told that if you’re hit, your foot will most likely leave the brake pedal and the car will roll if the parking brake isn’t engaged.
I still put it in neutral and keep my foot on the brake, though. I don’t use the parking brake under normal conditions.
As with several folks, I went with the “other” option because it just depends on how long I’m going to be sitting at the light. More often than not, I’m in gear. But if I know it’s a long light (or if I decide to switch what’s on my iPod or look for something in the back seat), I’ll but it in neutral.
I had an rx-7 with a dying synchro that was much better behaved when you did that.
My subie HATES shifting into first when decelerating from above about 8-10 mph…hitting 2nd on deceleration keeps everything moving and meshing…as opposed to neutral, clutch in, coast to a stop, which has parts of the transmission at full-stop until you clutch-in. There’s the output shaft, and the clutch/flywheel assembly, and a mid-shaft in a normal transmission…if the clutch is out, and the transmission is in neutral, then the clutch is spinning at engine rpm, and the output shaft is turning at axle speed, and that mid-shaft is stopped.
I’m with the “protect the bearings” crowd. I put it in neutral with my foot on the brake.
I don’t understand the worry about being in control of the car if it isn’t in gear. After I’ve driven a manual for a while, I can shift reflexively and fast. I think it’s highly unlikely that I’d be in a position where the extra time it took to move the shift lever would be critical. Even with the car in gear and your foot on the clutch, you still run the risk of stalling in the moment. Plus you’re wearing out your bearings!
And what’s all this talk of handbrakes? I’ve never been told to use my handbrake except when parking the car.
I had an old Ford pickup with a 3-on-the-tree that would not go into first gear without shifting into second or third first.
I also had a newer car with a bad synchronizer that I had to shift into second, then first, otherwise, it would pop out of gear. So now I have a habit of shifting into second then first in every stick shift I drive.
Anyway, when I’m approaching a light, I’m usually in neutral (yes, I know you’re not supposed to do that) and when I stop, I’m on the brake. Once there’s a car stopped behind me (assuming I"m on flat ground), I’m off the brake too, and I don’t touch the clutch until I see the cross traffic light turn yellow.
If by “minutes” you mean “seconds”, then yes*. Otherwise, I’m pretty sure I go into neutral, but it’s been fifteen years since I regularly drove a stick. If your daughter is first at the light, she should be paying attention, and shift into first and be ready to go when the light changes. If she’s not first, she still needs to pay attention, but can shift when the light changes.
Into neutral and onto the brake. A clutch kit costs $190.00 for the last manual transmission I had. I’d guess that machining the flywheel would cost another $50-100.00 (plus the cost of renting a car if I needed it), and it’s an all-day job between the work and running to the parts store and machine shop. It costs a lot less in the end to just not wear out the throwout bearing.
Information for the European posters- over here in the U.S., we have vehicles with manual transmissions and foot-operated parking brakes to the left of the clutch pedal, which pretty much prevents one using the neutral and hand brake method.
I don’t know what cave I’ve been hiding in, but I’ve never seen a stick-shift with a foot-operated parking brake. Seems like it would be an awfully tight fit so that it doesn’t interfere with the clutch.
Neutral and handbrake if its a long light and I want a rest. and I drive an automatic.
Sometimes I don’t engage the handbrake (footbrake, really) if the ground is flat.
Never seen one either, but apparently there are some. From this thread:
(Of course, you’d think there’d be at least a few Mercedes sold in Europe too.)
It really doesn’t make much difference anymore, because clutches in general are much better than they used to be. However, when I learned to drive in the 1960s, we were always taught to take the car out of gear. And we all knew someone who didn’t do it that way, and burned out a clutch every few months. That’s the way I learned how to drive a stick and if my kids had the slightest interest in learning, by golly that’s how I’d teach them. Now get off my lawn!
Ford F-150. Manual transmission, parking brake to the extreme left, literally just inside the door. The hood latch release is just forward of it on the side panel.
Most of them have usually been foot operated. I was surprised to find that the Dodge Neon placed it on the console between the seats, similar to what the Europeans have used for years.
Ah, gotcha. 
I voted ‘Other’, but I probably could have gone with ‘Put the car in neutral with the brake on and shift to first when the light changes’. That is very close to what I do, except that I try to anticipate when the light would change and shift into first shortly before it happens so that I’ll be ready to roll as soon as the light turns green.
I wish the US would adopt the British style traffic light sequence, which goes Red -> Red+Yellow -> Green. This tells you exactly when you should shift from neutral to 1st. With the US light sequence, I’ll have to guess based on other signals at the junction, which does not always work out so well.
Not sure what you are asking to be honest. You roll up to a light, the light has just went from green to red, so you know it will be a couple minutes before it is green again. Thus my comments about a few minutes. Or you roll up and it appears the light has been red for awhile so you figure it will be turning to green in a few seconds. Or am I missing something?
But yes once the light changes, yes you do shift and go in seconds, that I do agree with. But I don’t think I ever said any different.
for the fear of bearing wearing crowd.
Back in the day British cars used a carbon throwout bearing. No balls, no rollers, just a round cylinder of carbon mounted in a cast iron cradle that would push forward against a smooth surface on the clutch cover. These bearings actually did wear, and you could wear out the throwout bearing before the clutch. Here is what one looks like Although I got just about 100K on my last MG clutch, which was great mileage when you consider how I drove that car (Flat out everywhere)
Anyway I have not seen a TO bearing like one of those in a new car anywhere in almost 30 years.
The throwout bearings used now are either sealed ball bearings or maybe a roller bearing. I have not ever seen this type of bearing fail. Ever.
FTR my son drives a stick shift car. He drives like I do, if the light does not look to be a long one, leave it in first with your foot down on the clutch. He bought his current Volvo with 96,000 miles on the clock, and it now has over 200K, all on the original clutch. At this point we are both in the “how upset could I be if something failed after 200K camp?” The clutch on this car must be made out of kryptonite, or unobtainum as I am beginning to wonder if it will ever fail.
My Ranger has the parking break as a pedal on the floor. My Cobra has it between the seats.
For youse Britons, do they advocate putting the car in park and applying the parking brake at lights if you’re driving an automatic? If not, what’s the difference? I have actually rear-ended someone at 2 mph by taking my foot off the brake in an automatic when my attention wandered in a traffic jam, since the engine engages as soon as you take your foot off. Yes, I was tired, and it was 100% my fault. In a manual, even if you take your foot off the brake, it takes time for the car to start rolling and go anywhere unless you are on a significant hill. If the car is in gear and the clutch isn’t in, the car will stall and you will jump a few feet at most, then come to rest, not accelerate like an automatic.
I am another “it depends” person, but I lean towards putting it in neutral. I’ll also sometimes take my foot off the brake if it’s flat and the person behind me is stopped, which is part of how I got in trouble with the borrowed automatic.
As a side note, the only time I ever use the handbrake is if I’m parking on a serious hill; I always park in first gear. My handbrake isn’t that reliable, though - if I’m on a serious hill, the car will sometimes lurch backward a couple times (a couple feet in total) until I turn off the engine and leave it in gear.
FWIW, I acquired my Subaru from a friend at 105,000 miles. The clutch point was already pretty low, and I learned to drive manual on that car before replacing the clutch around 110K-115K. It currently has 180K on it and I plan to drive it until it quits.
As others have said, depends on the length of the light. I voted for neutral+brake, because I do that if it’s going to be longer than a few seconds.
Incidentally, I was told (on an advanced driving course) that, if you have another car behind you in the queue, you should apply the handbrake while waiting, rather than resting your foot on the brake. The reason for this is that modern LED brake lights are very bright, and the high-level ones will be shining right in the eyes of the driver behind you if you keep your foot on the brake pedal. It annoys me when people leave the brake light shining in my face, so I try to avoid doing it to other people.
If you are at the back of the queue, or the only driver waiting at the lights, it’s wise to keep your foot on the brake so that your brake lights are showing as a warning to approaching traffic.
