When stopped at a stoplight, should I put the shifter in neutral and let the clutch out, or is it okay to leave the shifter in first with the clutch in?
Is idling with the clutch in a form of “riding” the clutch?
My owner’s manual is silent on this issue, and I always leave the clutch in at stoplights and I’m still on the original clutch (the veehicle’s a 91, I’ve had it for about six years.)
Clutch out, Shifter in neutral. Pushing the clutch in while sitting at a light is riding the clutch and will lead to premature wear. That is the definitive answer.
You can safely idle with the clutch pressed in completely. This is not a form of riding the clutch if the pressure plate is completely disengaged.
I was taught to never take the vehicle out of gear while stopped in traffic, in case the need to move the vehicle quickly out of harm’s way should arise.
One more note…I have ridden with people that press the clutch down completely while pressing the brake pedal. This causes a considerable amount of wear on the brakes that could be avoided by simply pressing the brake pedal alone, allowing the transmission to assist the brakes, until it becomes necessary to disengage the transmission in order to avoid an engine stall.
I hope this helps.
Pretty cocksure of yourself, ain’t ya? Can you cite some kind of reference for this “definitive answer”?
If you clutch is working properly and the pedal is fully depressed, the clutch plates should be completely disengaged. How can this cause premature wear?
Try this column at cartalk.com http://cartalk.cars.com/Columns/Archive/1999/February/09.html
They suggest that clutch out, gear in neutral is best.
Kamandi, you asked what could be wearing if the pressure plates don’t touch. If memory serves, it’s called a release bearing. Remember, that when the pressure plates are held open, the arm that forces the plate open is still under a load, and the bearing it pivots on is being worn as you depress the clutch.
Most autombile owner’s manuals come with that sage advice.
That’s why I hate stop and go; when I pray that the cars would stop long enough for me to slap it into neutral to give my Goddamn left leg a break. 
I just found this other column at cartalk.com, which also supports the clutch out, gear shift in neutral advice when stopped. Color me convinced. I’d never heard of a release bearing.
Although Shagnasty was right, his/her declaration that it was “the definitive answer” while giving no cite or backup at all was out of line.
Who am I to question the sage automotive wisdom of Tom and Ray? I concede that the release bearing does indeed spin like crazy while the clutch is depressed, but that’s what it is designed to do. I suppose it depends entirely on the circumstances as to whether you are more concerned about the life of your bearing or the life of your being.
I just asked a qualified mechanic (my dad) who tells me that clutch in, in low gear is the best choice. That way, when the light turns green or if an accident takes place, you don’t have to take the time to shift into gear and move. He also said that the clutch will mostly suffer unnecessary wear when it is partially engaged. So, I guess the opinion differs based on who you talk to.
-Brianjedi
Yet more advice from Tom & Ray:
Hmm. I’ve been experimenting, and it’s pretty awkward, though I suppose I could get used to it. I’m a little uncomfortable, as Buck says, sitting in the middle of traffic with the truck out of gear, though it is a bit difficult to imagine a scenario when I’d have to move right now . . . and again, stomping on the clutch and shifting out of into gear quickly is probably something that would become second nature with practice.
Maybe this falls into the same category as downshifting vs. braking. Sure, you save on the clutch, but how much?
Anyway, thanks for the advice.
I’m with you on the definitive answer bit.
I’ve been trying to think of a way to explain what happens when you step on the clutch, at least as well as I understand it.
First of all, I might be wrong about the name, it could be called a throw out bearing. I’ll need to think of this in terms of my old Mustang - 3-speed with a mechanical linkage clutch.
When I step on the pedal, various levers push this way and that. In the transmission, an arm pushes the bearing I referred to towards the front of the engine. This bearing then engages three spring loaded arms. The arms are placed radially. Think of it as looking from the top of a tripod down. The bearing pushes where the three arms near each other in the center. More modern transmissions use many more arms, as they engage more smoothly. These arms pull the pressure plate back.
So, even though the plates end up not touching, there is still pressure on some parts.
I tried to find an on-line diagram, but, alas, I give up easy. But, I did find a picture of clutch parts (almost) http://www.borgwarnerbrand.com/whatsnew/bwn10.html
On the picture on this page, you can see a disk with many arms in the center. It is that center part that is pushed when the clucth is engaged. It will be around there that is wearing when the clutch is engaged (and the pressure plates are disengaged.
I also was told to leave the car in gear to be prepared for “emergency” situations, but I never quite bought that advice. From a complete stop, when you think of the amount of time it would take to move your car in a hurry, the portion of that time taken up by throwing the car into gear is miniscule.
Can anyone make a stronger case for leaving the car in gear?
(I tend to take the car out of gear when I’m at a long light, leave it in when I’ll be moving again soon.)
I don’t have a better argument for the “leave it in gear” defense. In fact, I almost always take it out of gear and then hold it in position to move quickly into gear if needed. I have heard the “emergency scenario” used all my life, and I also think that it is a weak argument, but then I consider myself to be a much better driver than a lot of the people that are on the road with me. It usually takes my wife three tries to get my truck into first gear. That’s why I never let her drive it alone, and why I would pass along information that seems a bit naive. Someone much smarter than me once said that* “caution is the eldest child of wisdom”.
Saves moves?
Clutch in, shift to neutral, clutch out, (wait), clutch in, shift to first, clutch out.
vs.
Clutch in, (wait), shift to first, clutch out.
I don’t get wishbone’s tired leg–is it that much harder for your leg to hold the clutch down than to just leave your foot on the floor? The weight of my foot will hold my clutch down, but maybe yours is different.
Does the act of engaging/disengaging the clutch (assume you leave the car in neutral) cause any wear? If so, how does that wear compare to leaving the clutch engaged?
(Oh, and I was going to make a snide remark about “definitive answers” too, but it got lost in editing. It’s probably just as well. 
)
Just a side note: “release bearing” and “throwout bearing” are the same thing for the purposes of this thread. They’re what supports the friction disk when it’s not being clamped against the flywheel by the pressure plate. (See
http://www.howstuffworks.com/clutch.htm)
I agree with Tom and Ray. If wear and tear is your overriding concern, take it out of gear and let the clutch pedal back up. Though the argument that you’re better equipped to jet out of a rear-ender if you’re in gear already is a valid one. Depends on what’s more important to you.
I think, for me, I’ll continue to pop out to neutral. When the light turns, I can normally use my right hand and left foot to get into first well within the time it takes my right foot to let off the brake and move to the accelerator.
-Ben
I just tested my theory: I naturally tend to slip the car out of gear at stoplights, which I assume most people do since it is the most comfortable thing for the body to do, releiving the added stress on the left leg.
[nitpick]
Not only for the purposes of this thread. They are the same thing.
The friction disk is not ever supported by the release bearing. The input shaft of the transmission is what supports it, always. The release bearing pushes against the pressure plate fingers and should never touch the friction disk.
[/nitpick]
If I recall my parts days, when you replace the disk most, if not all the mechanics I ever talked to replaced the bearing as well. If it doesn’t come with the kit, it’s only a few bucks extra, and you have the saftey of a brand new bearing.
When taking a CDL driving exam, in Oklahoma, at any rate, you cannot approach an intersection with the truck out of gear. You must engage the gear you intend to start back off again prior to coming to a complete stop. This is due to the nature of large, unsynchronized transmissions used in many commercial trucks. It can be difficult to get them into 1st gear from a full stop in neutral. Most truck drivers will sit through a light with the transmission in gear and the clutch disengaged. In some trucks, this can be a cruel test of endurance, especially for someone like me with a damaged left knee.
I’ll second Saint Zero’s remark. I cannot fathom any failure to replace the throwout bearing when replacing the rest of the clutch assembly. If you’re that far into the drivetrain, replace every wear part. I also replace the arm if it shows any hint of deformation whatsoever.
One of the biggest assumptions about the clutch-in arguement is that the clutch plate is in adjustment. Many cars on the road have clutch plates that drag a tiny bit due to poor adjustment. Sitting at a light with the pedal depressed just accelerates wear in that case. Another assumption is that you can get out of the way if someone is coming at you. If you can’t, and have the clutch engaged when you are hit, it can be nearly as bad as having the brakes engaged.