Strange Knife Fight Ritual

I was watching a western last night (The Long Riders, made in 1980) in which a strange knife fight was staged. Two men are in a bar, one of them is supposed to be half Indian if that matters. They agree to hand-to-hand combat and both have large ‘bowie’ knifes. Before they go at it the female lead hands them a long narrow piece of cloth, about 6-8 feet long, and each of them puts an end in their mouths. They begin to fight, but they continue to hold the cloth in their mouths throughout the fight sequence. At one point one of them is hit so hard the cloth comes flying out of their mouth, but they soon put it back in and continue fighting. At the end of the fight one of them is stabbed in the leg and it’s over.

So what’s the deal with the long piece of cloth being held in clenched teeth during a knife fight? What is its propose? Why haven’t I seen this before, or is it probably complete fiction?

MODS: This thread may wander off into CS or IMHO territory, but I figured I would start here since they should be a factual answer.

If I had to guess I would say that it’s purpose is to keep them close enough to each other to always be within a reasonable striking distance, but it still sounds like a very bizarre practice to me.

The only other time I’ve ever seen anything like this is when Jacko and that other guy tie their wrists together and “knife fight” in the video for “Beat It.”

The same concept in that one ST:TOS episode where Kirk and the Evil Captain are tied together at the wrist and fight their way over to a knife sticking in the floor.

What happens if you spit out the cloth and get disqualified?

Regards.
Shodan

I imagine stuff like this is inspired by the life & legend of Jim Bowie. I think one of the Bowie bio-pics had Bowie & his opponent tied at the wrist during a knife fight. Then there’s the often told story of Bowie & an opponent fighting a duel in a totally dark room.

I’ve always associated it with gypsies, possibly from a scene in From Russia, With Love. But now that I type this, ISTR a film where it was described as fighting ‘indian style’.

And I’ve read “tied at the wrist” described as “Helena style”. Can’t help you with the other. (The ST:TOS episode was “The Omega Glory”, but in a Helena-style knife fight they would have had a knife each from the start.)

Okay. Still seems odd to me, but at least I’m not alone.

In the movie the two characters, along with the crowd watching, acted like this was the most normal thing for two knife fighters to do…

I would guess it is a fiction created by the writers to convey a sense of gladitorial combat to the fight and that it was then copied by many other writers.

Frequently used gimmick in pre-1995 pro wrestling…no knives involved, but many variations–Indian Strap Match, Russian Chain Match, Texas Bullrope Match—combatants each have one end of the tether attached to their wrists.

I’ve mostly heard it as them being tied together on their non-knife hands.

But that’s a common theme in arranged or staged fights.

  • Boxing has a ring, with ropes around it defining the fighting area.
  • Wrestling has a ring or mat; fighters who go outside it are moved back inside or disqualified.
  • Fencing is done in a lane, with markings for the warning & limit lines.
  • Even duels had a limited area (“take ten paces, then turn and fire”).

Also in the music video for Beat It.

Though most knife fights don’t have such awesome background music

I have heard of it in European duelling. There was some fancy French term for it. Each duellist would hold a pistol in his right hand. With their left hands, the duellists would hold opposite corners of a silk handkerchief.

The purpose was to publicly demonstrate one’s courage. However, since it was almost guaranteed to result in a double fatality, it was very rare. It usually meant that the challenger had been exceedingly drunk. Bystanders would usually try to delay the fight until both parties had sobered up, after which they usually agreed to a more traditional duel.

For a modern twist on this, there’s X-Arm: the exciting new combat sport that combines arm-wrestling and MMA.

For the action, skip ahead to 4:30: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG9fbQDhU_w

Quite possibly the dumbest sport ever invented. It seems like it must be some sort of joke.

I can’t recall which movie, but a movie that I think had Tom Hardy in it, maybe Lawless or something of about that period had a knife fight where their arms were tied together.

Likely the movie wasn’t made when the last post to this subject was made.

Some hold a rubber chicken.

My knife training was Filipino Martial Arts. We never did such a thing. But we did spar boxing with the laces of our lead legs tied together.