I should also have said, most Irish-speaking folks will be jubilant to hear you trying to speak Irish, any time, anywhere, at any level, and welcome your participation enthusiastically.
As an American, I expect it. That’s not to say that I demand it, because I don’t. But in my 20 years of international travel, I’ve just come to accept that as an English speaker, people will speak to me in English wherever I go. It was interesting once in Belgium, though: I was speaking to my wife in Spanish, and so the shopkeeper started to talk with us in Spanish. (It was in that same town I complimented a waitress on her excellent English, and she told me, “Well, I’m from Minnesota.”)
It’s not so much that the French dont like people to speak French to them (actually they’d much prefer that than assuming that you necessarily speak English), it’s more that, for a weird reason, if you dont say the words almost perfectly they will not understand what you’re trying to say.
My mom’s an English teacher and she does the exact same thing, with any member of my family, when they ask her something in English. If it’s not said in a perfect accent, you’ll just get a total blank look from her.
I doubt that that quirk extends to other French speaking countries.
They don’t seem to like it in Quebec when a visitor speaks French. Many Quebeckers will just roll their eyes and speak English in response. It’s as if they’re saying, “Don’t bother, you’re not fooling anyone”
Highly possible, Quebecois have more issues with English speakers than even the French do. But if you go to French speaking countries in Africa, I doubt you would ever experience that.
If you’re in a “touristy place” in any country, and speaking any language, you can assume that the locals are out for your money. That is the purpose of “tourism” as an industry.
I talk to Chinese people all the time. I want the practice and know if they take my Ni Hao as intrusive. You should see the Shanghaiese I talk to. It’s jaw dropping surprise when I give 'em a “Nong ho va?”
A couple of anecdotes, which is not proof positive, but…
My sister-in-law took French as a second language. Her instructor was actually a Parisian, so my sister-in-law picked up the accent, as well. She became fluent enough that she was offered a job as translator at the UN (which she turned down). What’s anecdotal about it was that she was having a conversation with a Quebecois who apparently thought she was French. She was trying to place the accent and asked her if she was from Paris. When my sister-in-law answered, no, she was from Detroit, the Canadian suddenly developed a complete inability to understand my sister-in-law’s poor French.
A second story (waitaminnit, that sounds like building a house), but I had a job assignment in Paris, along with an English (UK) associate who brought his wife with him. While his French (and mine) was barely rudimentary, hers was impeccable. But staff in restaurants and such could tell that we were foreigners. And they were quite unable to converse in French. Perhaps they could discern a British accent from the wife, but it was faint enough that I couldn’t tell it. Certainly nothing that prevented intelligent conversation.
From these, and numerous other encounters in both Montreal and in Paris, I’ve come to expect unmitigated rudeness from French speakers that I’ve never encountered from the locals in other non-English speaking countries. Couldn’t say about Belgium as I’ve never been there. And didn’t notice it in Switzerland, probably because German is as dominant as French.
As an English teacher in Japan, I am almost always delighted to have this happen, even with the rowdy junior high kids who decide to randomly compliment me on my elephantine penis.
I’ve found the Chinese to be quite gracious when I attempt to converse in their language. Even when I mix up what I’ve picked up in Taiwan vs the mainland. (Ni hau, rather than Ni hau ma.) But it’s not using a visitor’s own language that I got from the original question; it’s the uninvited intrusion into a private conversation, even though it may be held in a public venue. In any language, it’s an intrusion until one has asked permission to join the conversation, even if for nothing more than to welcome them in their own language.
Back to Chinese, I did learn that “Wah lai ni” means “Me love you long time.” Watch your wallet.
In my experience, it’s not intended as rude; it’s rather that we believe we’re helping you by switching to English. In my case, I wouldn’t switch to English with someone who speaks decent French, but if they really seem to be struggling, I’ll do it. What Marc Xenos describes is foreign to me.
It also depends where in Quebec you are, and the social context. I’ve found that Montrealers are the real switchers, especially in shops. As soon as they hear the anglo accent, they switch quickly to English, often leaving the impression that they just want to be as efficient as possible, and want you to practise your French on your own time.
Quebec City is just the opposite. Most of the time, the people in the shops smile politely and encourage you to keep speaking in French.
Of course, the bilingualism level tends to be higher in Montreal, which may be a factor.
I think it’s regional. In Paris I had hard a hard time being understood, and I think that it was because they simply chose not to understand me. Of course the Parisians who admitted that they spoke English were no problem. Meanwhile in Tours and the outlying regions, my broken French was accepted and even welcome.
I’ve started my Mandarin lessons! But I’ve not learnt that expression yet. (Runs to Google translator…) Damn. No help. Google in general either. What’s it mean? Hurry, I leave Saturday!
I didn’t see that as an issue, though I was told that I spoke French very well. I thank my French teacher, who put a lot of stress in pronunciation; I stumbled on a movie with an American speaking French in an American accent and it really sounded strange (though understandable).
Ni hao or Ni hao ma? means “hello” or “hi” or “how are you” or “how’s it going” or essentially a meaningless greeting. Nong ho va is the Shanghaiese translation.
Look, the first rule of speaking someone else’s language is “don’t torture me, dude.” It’s one thing if you’re in the mood for it, and someone wants to practice basic English with you. It’s another if you aren’t in the mood for giving an English lesson nor being patient. It’s yet another if you’re having a conversation and one of the parties language skill and fluency is like fingernails on a chalkboard and they still insist on trying to speak. Be sensitive to these 3 scenarios.
Me, I personally hate being tortured in English by a Chinese speaker. They don’t have to be perfect, hell my kids are not. But, don’t make it a painful process for me to decipher your broken English when we could easily do it in Chinese. After close to 30 years of practice, I really don’t have a lot of patience for trying to teach 1 billion Chinese how to speak English.
Like any interaction with strangers, it depends on the day, my mood, the context, etc. I think the key is, “Do you have something of value to add to the conversation” or are you just wanting to get your rocks off by interacting with a foreigner? Are you treating me as a person, or as an interchangeable “American” whose personal identity has nothing to do with your utterances? So think of something substantial to say that doesn’t essentially add up to “Hey look, you’re foreign!”
Generic “Oh, I spent a week in your country and it was beautiful and the people were nice” is a bit weak because it doesn’t really say anything, and it probably doesn’t actually relate to that person’s life in any meaningful way- if you told a housewife from Idaho “Oh, I visited New York once!” that’s really not more meaningful than saying you visited Istanbul. It’s not like tourist New York is a part of her life or existence, and having a superficial experience to a place she’s probably never been doesn’t really connect you guys enough to justify a cold conversation from a stranger.
It’s a bit better if you can relate a funny story, or say something about current events (but careful!) or just something, anything substantial. Anything that would, on it’s own merit, be interesting.
Personally, I don’t do it, simply because it was done so much to me that I can appreciate how much people want some peace and normalcy when they feel like they obviously stand out. If I do feel the need to talk to someone on the “Hey, you are a foreigner!” basis I’ll first talk to them as any other human being, and then bring up one of my experiences (“I’m a student here. It’s strange being a student again…I just got back from teaching in China…”) and then see if they run with it. Sometimes they get excited about it and want to talk. Other times they choose not to pick it up (“Interesting…I like cats!”), and we talk about other things, which is fine. Let them bring it up.
Here are some general guidelines
[ul]
[li]Don’t treat people like a parrots or a roadside cow, yelling the equivelent of “Polly want a cracker” or “Cow goes moooooooo, American goes huuuuuuulllllo” as I walk by.[/li][li]Pay attention to body language. If someone is obviously rushed, carrying a bag of groceries or engrossed in a book, or whatever, leave them alone just like you would anyone else. Don’t disrupt a foreigner in a situation where you wouldn’t disrupt something from your own culture. [/li][li]People will make smalltalk with you, but they are not free English teachers. One or two grammar questions are fine, but don’t pressure people into giving you an extended lesson. [/li][li]If someone is good at your language and is trying to get something done, let them do it in your language- they probably went through considerable time and effort to learn it, precisely so they wouldn’t have to bumble through every single mundane task in broken English. [/li][li]Don’t make assumptions. You don’t know anything about the person you are talking to. [/li][/ul]
Well, I’ll have given my best shot at trying to defend my fellow countrymen. To no avail.
A few things though:
-there is no Parisian accent. It is dead, and very few people still use it, what you’ll hear in Paris is default French.
-most Frenches (especially the older generations, I include baby boomers in it) tend to dislike being adressed in English by total strangers. Probably a combination of insecurity with their grasp of English, and also the feeling they’re being treated like conquered people (dont ask, that would be too long). Even if it is to switch to English quickly in the conversation, they’d far prefer you’d make an effort while you’re there. Which is why I have a hard time believing some of the other posters I’ve read. It goes totally against what I experience daily (and there are quite a lot of tourists in my neighborhood, so it is daily).
-the only people as bad as the French when it comes to foreign languages are English speaking people, sorry but a lot of them just vastly overestimate their skills with the language. Hence the “my, they obviously can understand me, but the bastards are pretending not to” meme, in my opinion.
-lastly, at all times, a good size of the Parisian population are tourists. When you’re in a hurry or when you’ve already been asked for directions or a good restaurant adress for the tenth time in an hour, it is an easy copout or simply because Parisians do tend to have a bit of assholishness in them (quite aptly summed in tis ad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utYyB96u0uw ) . But I dont think the latter explains most of it.
Meh I live in Denmark and everybody addresses me in English straight away in shops, bars, restaurants etc. I dunno how people can tell but they can, this pretty much holds true for Sweden and I’ve heard Norway as well.
So in Scandinavian countries if they think you’re a foreigner they’ll talk to you in English just because they don’t expect you to speak any of the language in the slightest. However if you can talk it people will happily speak back.
Well, there you have it. It doesn’t exist. I just made it all up.
Similar incidents happen inside America, for example, Detroit, when someone approaches you with an accent that’s indecipherable, and you respond that you don’t understand them. So the speaker repeats the exact same thing, only MUCH LOUDER, as though that transcends the language barrier.
But, nah, a lot of people haven’t encountered that, either, so it’s not real.
I suppose there’s no New York accent, either; it’s all default American English.
I couldn’t say about accents for the rest of France, since Paris is the only city I’ve been to. But it still sounds different than Quebecois French. And given the variety of accents in my own USA, as well as the incredible variations among UK cities, all in one tiny little island, not to mention embarrassing differences between Taipei and Beijing, I figured that France was not homogenized to one single accent across a large country sharing borders with a number of foreign speaking countries.
I didn’t pay enough attention to find out if Swiss French is sufficiently different than French French. However, I’ve been to MANY different countries, some many times, and all were gracious with the singular exception of France. Canada, in general, is notably gracious in their hospitality, with the (again) singular exception of Montreal. I’m told that the Germans, as a culture, are arrogant toward foreigners, or at least Americans. Yet the worst I encountered was indifference. Not the decidedly UNgracious rudeness I’ve seen in Paris and Montreal. Something that extends, oddly enough, even to Air France.