Since this has turned into the ask Mr. bus guy thread I have a question.
When I travel back east (NJ, NY VA) I see something attached to the front bumper of the school buses that I don’t see here in Ca.
It looks like a figure 8 made out of steel cable, and appears to be attached on the driver’s side.
What the heck is this, and why?
My late father in law drove a school bus, and the one he drove had a strobe. He was glad he had it except when there was fog. In fog, the whole world lit up once every couple seconds, and it made him nervous that he couldn’t see during that instant. It was good, though, that all the other drivers couldn’t see anything but his bus during that same instant.
Since Mr. Bus Guy has signed off, that figure 8 serves the same purpose as the cross arm-it stands 8 feet out from the front bumper when the stop lights are flashing and door is open to force the kids to stay where the bus driver can see them when crossing in front.
If you want to read more about traffic signal preemption systems Khadaji, search for 3M Opticom-it seems to be one of the more popular ones.
They are on all the time around here in Arkansas.
We never blow by a school bus.
they get real grumpy if you just drive 26 in a 25 school zone. The ‘good ole boys’ will shoot ya if you pass their kids school bus while the kids are getting on or off.
I’d be way ahead to flip off a State Trooper while driving 30 over the limit than to pass a stopped school bus.
*:: there are some things you just don’t do… ::: *
That’s a valid question, and I don’t know firsthand of any direct research that says “strobe lights **on buses ** make the bus safer on the road than without”. As diku pointed out, they came into mbeing following a number of major accidents that came from other vehicles not seeing the bus. Probably the feeling was that a strobe being a very effective, attention grabber would make the bus more visible.
All of the other “distractions” you mention are controllable by the driver of another vehicle, and this isn’t a thread about distracted drivers, there’s plenty of them somewhere else. On the other hand, a strobe alerting you to the presence of a loaded school bus (and they should only be used when the bus is loaded IMHO) is more akin to warning lights on any emergency vegicle or tow truck.
Your comment about being upset that “a bright flashing light whose purpose is to announce that the occupants of this enormous bright yellow vehicle are more important than any one else on the road is useless and best, counterproductive at worst, and arrogant in either case.” is hard to even respond to. Holy Jeebus man, they’re kids, there’s maybe 50 of them at a time in the bus, and if it’s your kid on the bus, yeah, you do care and think they’re the most important cargo oo the road.
Bingo. They’re called cross arms.
Sometimes they’re the figure-8 metal, sometimes they’re a strip of yellow plastic. There’s a hinge on the end of the bumper and they swing out to create a safe zone in front of the bus. If you’ve ever driven a truck or a bus, you know that directly in front of you, because of the overhang of the hood, is a blind spot. it keeps kids from going into that blind spot.
It also gives the mechanics something to do in sub-zero weather when the fuckers freeze up and either won’t go out or retract.
That is really annoying. Similarly annoying is when an empty bus stops and sits when it comes to a railroad crossing, as if the driver’s wellbeing is somehow more important than other peoples’. (sorry for the brief hijack)
I can only speak for Illinois, but I would guess most states have similar laws. At every grade level railroad crossing, a school bus is required to stop, the driver is to open his doors look and listen for approaching trains whether there is a signal or not. The law also affects transit buses and (I believe) trucks carrying hazardous materials.
A BIG safety promotion now focuses on getting kids to help by staying quiet while the driver is performing this check. Some newer buses have systems built in to automatically lower the volume of every noise-producing device on board (fans, PA, etc.) while the bus has it’s yellow warning lights on.
Three words that no bus guy (or chick) in Illinois will ever forget: Fox River Grove. A school bus there about 10 years ago got nailed by a fast moving commuter train, seven kids got killed.
I understand why a bus with kids on it stops at a a railroad crossing, and I have no problem with that. My beef is when an empty bus does the same stop-look-listen rigamarole. I know it’s empty because it enters the bus yard about a quarter mile from the crossing.
I had a roommate in college from the Bronx. I went to college in North Carolina and it would have been 1998.
I was driving him to a local burger joint. He noticed me stopping for a stopped school bus. He noticed all the other drivers stop for said school bus.
“Wow. I gotta’ make a note of that. You guys are real serious about the stopped school bus thing.”
I’ve never been to the Bronx, but that remark makes me wonder exactly how people drove in the Bronx circa 1996 or so, when Marc got his license.
It’s easier to just do it always by reflex, rather than have to think “Do I have any passengers?” That bus that’s on the way back to the barn - it does happen that a kid’s fallen asleep every so often and winds up where they shouldn’t be. How would you explain away “but there weren’t supposed to be any kids on the bus when a train hit it because the driver didn’t stop at the crossing?”
It’s also easier to write laws or regulations that say “Stop at crossing, open door, look and listen” and not have to add “but not when this or not if that or not before 3 AM or after 11:30 PM…”
WAG would be a distinct lack of busses in the city? The stories I’ve heard about school in the city is that you either walk, or take some sort of Public Transit (Subway/bus)
Short answer: Because the law doesn’t say “when students are on board”.
Also, the point about kids being left on the bus is a good one. Inexcusable that adriver does that (immediate firing, no questions asked if you return to the yard with students on your bus - it means you didn’t walk your bus after the route to make sure you had no sleepers), but it could happen. Imagine that headline: “Driver didn’t stop because she thought the bus was empty, two kids killed at rail crossing”
You’ve obviously never driven a bus. Part of the issue is the length of time it takes for the vehicle to cross the tracks. Even if moving continuously, the bus is exposed to oncoming trains for a longer period of time than the average passenger car. In addition, the bus poses a greater danger to the train than your Honda. Therefore, stopping to check the crossing is critical, regardless of how many passengers are or aren’t on the bus.
As to your remark about the driver’s safety being more important than anyone else’s – well poo on you. I’m driving a much larger vehicle which is more exposed to the dangers of railroad crossings. You’re damn right I’m going to be careful. My safety is JUST as important as everyone else’s.
That being said, I do understand your concern about stopping at crossings. However, properly executed, the stop at a rail crossing is a safe operation. The collisions are caused by drivers of other vehicles failing to notice the LARGE YELLOW BUS WITH FLASHING LIGHTS ALL OVER IT!
I gotta’ say two things:
- You have to be completely braindead to hit a school bus if you’re not driving on ice or in fog. [queenie southern man voice] My Og! [/queenie southern man voice]
Related question: What percentage of these brain surgeons were under the influence? - School buses are the safest way to get around. It gets on my nerves that society pays as much attention to school bus safety as it does, when school buses have SINGLE DIGIT ANNUAL FATALITIES [1] in the entire USA in one year, and have been that safe for at least a decade. We could do more good focusing on the number of children killed elsewhere, be it domestic situations, athletics or fires.
Related question: Exactly how do the 5-10 children killed per year while riding in school buses get killed? What do you have to do to breach a school bus? Did these buses go offroad due to poor driving or weather? Get hit by a train? A semi?
[1] http://www.schoolbusinfo.org/keystats.htm and http://www.schoolbusinfo.org/busfacts.htm
You do have to be brain dead, yet it happens. You’re surprised that there are brain dead people driving on the road with you?
It gets on your nerves that society pays as much attention to schoool bus safety when they are so demonstrably the safest form of transportation on the road? Turn that around - perhaps they are that safe because there has been so much emphasis on them?
When a car goes off the road ans someone gets hurt or killed, we lose a person or two. When a bus has an accident, and any bus for the sake of argument, a coach bus, transit - whatever - now you have upwards of 50-60 people affected. Multiply that by the “little children” effect, and now you make school bus safety one of the highest priorities of most every state’s DOT.
5-10 children a year being killed in school bus accidents is incredibly low. The chassis of a school bus and the passenger compartment are tank-like. Even so, sometimes impact or projectiles inside a bus (ever weigh your kid’s backpack?) can cause injury or death.
In my state, the red flashers are prohibited in townships (everything outside a city limit), and passing school busses is therefore perfectly normal on both sides. Being primarily rural, speed limits are higher, too. Yellow flashers are used to announce the hazard, though.
I think (at least I’ve observed it a lot) that the red flashers (back in incorporated areas again) can’t be turned on while the bus is in motion, either. I’ve never seen it done. In 100% of all cases, I’ve seen the bus turn on its yellow flashers, pull to the side, come to a complete stop, and then activate the red flashers and put out the funny little stop sign. This always give most of us a chance to pass the buss – except for the stupid drivers (or color blind) who can’t tell red flashers from yellow flashers.
Finally, for all the complaints about people doing bad things or losing patience with busses, there’s an incredibly high number of asshole bus drivers that don’t stop the let other traffic through, e.g., on a two lane road with a wide, paved shoulder, they’ll just never have the common courtesy to let anyone pass. Truck drivers do. Slow drivers do. What the hell is the deal with (some) bus drivers?
Have you ever driven a bus? My county hazmat team had a school bus converted into personnel/gear carrier, and we’d run it every week or so. Driving that damned thing was annoying-everything echoed-even when I was the only one aboard.
Putting myself in the position of a school bus driver with however many noisy kids, diligence is the rule, or you’ll get bitten.
The same-old same-old mentality of drivers is what contributes to fatal accidents. Consider this one in which three children were killed.
That’s usually the rule. 100-200 ft of yellow while they slow, and the red stop sign comes out after they stop.
I’m the last guy to say some bus drivers aren’t assholes. Stop in some day, I’ll show you. But in a lot of cases where the driver is holding up traffic on a rural road (NM excluded it sounds like), they’re following the law. lawmakers and the police have enacted some very strict regulations about stopped school bus with their reds activated.
This story will show what happens when you aren’t paying attention to those flashing red lights. God knows how anyone could miss them, though I have to say scrabbling around on the floor of your car under your feet for your cell phone probably would be distracting. She was recently sentenced to 18 months in jail for her stupidity.
Folks, plain and simple, complaining because a bus has to stop at tracks, or because it has a flashing white strobe light is really pretty petty. I mean, you might be inconvenienced for all of what, a few minutes of your precious life? Anything that helps make certain kids don’t get injured or killed while riding busses is ok with me, and ought to be okay with you. :rolleyes: