Are our memories really so short? Cecil article on the home page just the other day.
This is also the one I thought of when I saw the thread. It was a pretty horrific accident, in the fog. I used to drive through that area on occasion. It’s fairly dangerous at speed, in fog it was just a disaster waiting to happen. FWIW 27 people were killed in that single crash, although I don’t recall that it was actually carrying children to or from school.
My only peeve with school buses is that until recently they had all the school buses stopping on major streets, rather than pull onto side streets, for loading and unloading students. This is dangerous for the kids, and it really screws up traffic, which causes some drivers to drive more recklessly. I assume that they do this to make the bus schedules more efficient, but we probably have one of the most inefficient school logistic systems in the country because of a settlement between the school board and the NAACP.
[slight hijack] I am sitting in a coffee shop one morning before going to jury duty. As I drink my coffee I observe a couple of school buses stop and open their door, driver looks both ways and proceeds.
Huh, I din’t realize there were railroad tracks here I think.
Anyway when I leave the coffee shop I see the tracks in the street, and I see the two building (one on each side of the street) that have been built on the railroad right of way.
Laughed my ass off. 
[/sh]
FTR when I drove a truck for Union oil that carried 1800 gallons of stuff that burns I stopped at railroad tracks and looked both ways first also.
Two questions:
_ When I see an old, apparently abandoned railroad crossing with a sign saying “Exempt,” does that mean this crossing is exempt from the usual requirement that buses stop? That’s what I’ve always assumed the sign meant, but I’ve never known for sure.
_ Why do more and more school buses have white roofs? I don’t see how it helps with visibility and I can picture scenarios where it would hurt – search planes would not be able to spot a bus stranded in a snowy area, for instance. I’m must be missing something, but what?
Maybe it helps make them cooler inside? Most schools buses have heat (some) but no airconditioning, IIRC.
Please.
“and it most often occurs when the light source has a frequency of 15 to 20 cycles per second. Why it happens is not well understood, but it’s quite common, and in fact strobes are often used to diagnose epilepsy. In extremely sensitive individuals seizures can even result from the play of light through the trees or on water. Photoepileptic seizures often result from TV viewing, particularly when you get close to the screen to change the channel.”
The strobes on buses are going nowhere near that frequency. Also, note the bolding (mine). Unless you’re sitting on the roof of the bus, this isn’t likely.
Also for Rick: Yes, that’s what exempt means. Even if the track is not being used, and is grown over, or built on, if the DOT hasn’t declared it abandoned, it has to be treated as an active crossing. The wrong cop (or bus guy) sees a driver not stop there, and it’s hell to pay.
Wow. Stump the bus guy will ya’? :smack:
Our new Internationals came that way, and as I look at their web site it looks like thay don’t all come that way. I’m guessing that’s somebody’s idea of aesthetics, but I’m awaiting the call from my rep for an answer.
…And now I am told that it is a heat related thing. I brought up the visbility in the snow issue, and was brought back to the strobes. Presumably if a bus is lost in the snow somewhere, the strobes will make it findable. That assumes of course the driver is conscious and can activate them…
And the white is supposedly more visible from the air under normal circumstances. Also, some states require identification on the top of the bus, and the white makes a better background for that.
psst – mr bus guy – I thought there was chocolate in it for me if I started a thread that played to your strengths?
Seriously – thanks for answering all our questions – I had no idea this was going to turn into such a lively thread!
Noticed them? That’s the point.
I see we have some people who seem to dislike the bus strobes…well, they can be a bit jarring. But everyone I’ve discussed this subject with always immediately noticed the school buses with strobes, which is of course the whole point.
We have few enough things making us pause for an instant and assess safety, even when we drive. I don’t mind this one.
Sailboat
No sweat, it beat working for a few minutes!
Since we’re on the subject of buses and we have a resident expert, I have a question. If I’m involved in an incident with a school bus (without injuries), who do I report it to? The school, the police or the bus company?
To explain: My car was hit by a bus when I was stopped at a stop sign. The bus was to my right at a four way stop, it took the corner (turned to its left to go up the street I was on) and scraped its tires along my bumper (I saw it coming but couldn’t move back because of cars behind me). Needless to say it scared the shit out of me seeing a giant bus bearing down on my tiny Honda. I had no place to go, and the driver was (apparently) oblivious. The bus kept going, I cleared the intersection to survey the damage, and luckily I just got a nice layer of rubber on my bumper.
Who should hear about this, and what (if any) repercussions would it have for the driver? Is a bus driver with a bus full of kids required to stop if they hit someone?
Hmph. Virtual sweets for the virtually sweet? 
Call whoever operates the bus (private company or school district) after you report it to the police. Chances are the police will also contact them - they’ll treat it as leaving the scene of an accident, but likely won’t treat it as a crime of any kind. Because of the noise on the bus, and the sheer size difference, there are lots of times buses scrape cars, or bang mailboxes (insert Crankshaft joke here) and don’t even know. Note: I didn’t say good drivers do that.
But definitely call the police. Be prepared for someone at the bus company to get on a horse and demand proof that they hit you. I would, and I’d be kind of weird about why you didn’t report it at the time, but chances are my insurance carrier would write you a check anyway if there was damage.
In this state (Land O’Lincoln), yes if there’s kids on a bus and the driver is involved in an accident, it means guaranteed EMT’s and Police. The bus cannot leave the spot, and the kids don’t leave the scene til someone from the bus company (or district) and the EMT’s sign and release them.
By the way, that driver needs re-training. Missing his reference point on a left turn is just awful. I would almost expect tail-swing to hit a car sitting next to it, but that kind of collision is bad.
Most companies, and districts have accident review teams. Every single scrape, or accident is written up then reviewed by a team that includes trainers, supervisors and in my case, your friendly mr bus guy. The circumstances are torn apart, with the driver present. It’s not an inquisition, just a review. We don’t determine “fault”. Rather we determine “preventability”. An accident can not be your fault, but if you didn’t do everything possible to prevent it happening -put yourself into a situation where it was inevitable for example, THAT is a preventable accident.
It’s a way higher standard to defend. Most companies and districts have guidelines that say “x number of preventable accidents within y months get you canned”. Or it’s gradual, say the first in a period gets a warning, second gets a week off, third says goodbye bus driver.
Around here, if an accident is determined preventable, the driver gets skill refreshing in whatever particular thing that might have led to the accident. Say in your case, I’ll find that was preventable - even if he comes up with a witness that says you crept forward and hit his tires. Why? Because while stopped at the 4-way, if he thought he might have clearance problems or he failed to make eye contact with you, then he could have reasonably foreseen that from seeing where you were, that he might cut short and get you.
After the hearing, he’s going to get a written warning that explains why it was preventable, and within the next few days, he’ll spend time with a driver-trainer who will take him in the classroom, and behind the wheel and refresh what he knows about left turns and reference points.
Then he gets the nice bus guy speech about not letting it get him down, we all know he’ll do better, blah blah blah…
No really, it’s sincere when I say it.
The year before I got here, this fleet had 19 preventable accidents on the road. last year, my first full year in this district, we had 16. This year, we just passed our second full month without an accident.
That was bragging, yeah.
UPS trucks do the same thing. When I am on the second floor at work watching them come to shipping, the top has a white/silver rectangle.
Thanks for all the info! It’s good to know there is a follow up. My fear was that bus companies are cavalier about this sort of thing, eg: “I’m a giant yellow monster, if I hit you it must have been your fault!” But that’s a really scary thought considering kids are involved.
I didn’t report it (and won’t - this time) because at the time of the incident I was so shook up I didn’t get the buses id number (we were right by the school so tracking it down would have been fun), and I didn’t call the cops once I saw there was no real damage, filing an incident report would have been a lot of “I think - I’m not sure - I don’t have any witnesses.” Once I got to work I pondered who to call, and then in the end figured it would be more trouble than it’s worth.
Let me tell you, I am now way scared of school buses!
That, sir, if you mean the delivery trucks, and not the transport trailers, is a transluscent skylight. 
That and think about how you behaved when you used to ride the school bus. If it was anything like my experience, imagine trying to control a roomful of unruly children while operating heavy machinery.
Here’s a comparison driver’s use a lot. Teachers have 25 kids all day. Bus drivers take 50 kids, turn their backs to them, and have to drive a 40 foot long bus at the same time.
Regarding the DANGERS OF STROBES:
Folks, these strobes are far more dangerous than they are good. As a pilot, one must turn off strobes in fog, rain, snow due to vertigo.
This is the same on the ground as it is in the air. Why would you wish to “blind” drivers following a bus, particularly over a long distance. These strobes SHOULD BE OUTLAWED and NOT USED.
Wikipedia:
Flicker vertigo is “an imbalance in brain-cell activity caused by exposure to low-frequency flickering (or flashing) of a relatively bright light”
[1] The strobe light effect causes persons who are vulnerable to flicker vertigo to become disoriented, lose control of the aircraft (Vehicle).
Due to the intensity of the brilliant white light source, the intended use for strobes is during daylight hours of operation.
Strobes should really not be used in inclement weather, in the clouds or on the ground as this can cause flicker vertigo. BUT THIS IS WHEN MOST BUS DRIVERS USE THE STROBES ! THE WORST TIME TO HAVE THEM ON!!!
Aviation FAR 91.209—You must use position and anti-collision lights between sunset and sunrise, but this regulation says you can turn off the anti-collision lights for safety, such as when flying in precipitation.
Distractions and problems can result from a flickering light in the cockpit, anticollision light, strobe lights, or other aircraft lights and can cause flicker vertigo. If continuous, the possible physical reactions can be nausea, dizziness, grogginess, unconsciousness, headaches, or confusion. The pilot should try to eliminate any light source causing blinking or flickering problems in the cockpit.
Flicker vertigo has been reported as the cause of some aviation accidents. Twenty two percent of helicopter pilots and 30 percent of airplane pilots said flight through fog with a rotating beacon had caused flickering light in the cockpit.
At night, anti-collision lights reflecting off the clouds can produce the effect. Flicker vertigo can develop when viewing rotating beacons, strobe lights, or reflections of these off water or the clouds.
With the above information readilly available, Did the transportation board fail to do their research prior to having these installed?
Have they ever travelled 15 minutes behind a bus with strobes in the dark, and rain? IT IS VERY BLINDING and DISTRACTING
If they don’t feel a large yellow vehicle is visible enough, add reflective paint, more lighting (Like some trailer trucks)
But not a Blinding strobe light!
New Hampshire