Stuck at an intersection traffic light that won't turn green

I’ve always wondered what a citizen is LEGALLY required to do in the following situation.

Here is a streetview linkto show you the intersection that inspired this post.

I was turning left onto Greenbriar from Old Spanish Trail, I was the first car at the intersection and the left hand turn light refused to change. I inched my car forward occasionally to see if I could trigger anything, but nothing happened. There were cars behind me. Traffic was very busy.

What is the legal responsibility of a driver in this situation? I can’t imagine anything you could do would be legal. You can’t run the red light and turn left. You can’t change lanes and continue forward through the intersection because the only way to do that would be to veer right out of the turn lane and that constitutes changing lanes in an intersection which is also illegal. Not to mention you’re still running the red light.

The cars behind me, after realizing that the light was not going to turn green, just changed lanes by shifting right and went through the intersection. I don’t suspect they did anything illegal.

But what should I have done? What I ended up doing was watching the timing of traffic carefully and then running the red light and turning left because it was the safest thing for me to do. Unfortunately, because traffic was so heavy, there was never an opportunity for me to shift lanes to the right and continue forward through the intersection, but there were moments when turning left through the red light was actually (relatively) safe by the way the timing worked.

This was years ago btw but something that pops into my mind from time to time.

I’m looking for legal opinions, but anecdotes and personal experiences are also welcome. But legally, what is a driver supposed to do in a situation where there doesn’t seem to be any legal option other than “wait forever.”

What a great question, I’d like to know the answer too.

ETA: I assume the answer is “treat it like a stop sign or a blinking red light”. But how do I know when this is OK to do?

Classically, there is a “reasonable man” exception to many laws. If a “reasonable person” would break the law, then the courts will probably go easy on you for doing so.

Trespassing laws, for instance, are of little import when a house is on fire and someone inside is trapped. We’ve all heard of cases of people breaking the windows of a car in a parking lot to rescue a very small child who was baking in summer heat.

The “reasonable” thing to do is wait until it is safe…and then cross the intersection. Carefully, reluctantly, and only after waiting until it is obvious the light won’t change.

You might still get a ticket. The judge might still hit you with a fine. But you’ve got a solid argument that “There really wasn’t any other reasonable choice.”

These statements don’t add up. Why were the cars behind you able to do this, but not you? After a few cars had passed, I’d have started nosing to the right until someone slowed down and let me in. This has never yet failed to work, and I’m 29 years old.

In heavy traffic, there’d be no way to know when the coast was clear of cops. It may be illegal to change lanes at an intersection, but IMHO it’s **more **illegal (and more dangerous as a rule, even if not in this particular situation) to turn left on red.

I know in some states, it’s allowed to run the light after a certain number of changes. This was intended to accommodate motorcycles and bicycle, check your state laws.

This was a while ago so my memory is hazy, but basically as far as I can remember, any time the lane to my right was about to be free, the cars behind me shifted into it. I waited a very long time for an opportunity to shift right and go through the intersection when that light was green, but it never opened up for me. The drivers behind me that were also stuck kept getting into that lane and preventing me from doing it.

Theoretically if I had waited long enough, an opportunity would have opened up, and I agree it would have been safer and “less illegal” if illegal at all. But I did wait a very long time, it was rush-hour traffic, etc.

And there really weren’t many opportunities for even the cars behind me to move over. If I remember correctly (again, a rather large assumption at this point), only a few managed to do it and go on their way. Most of them were as stuck as I was.

Maybe I wasn’t aggressive enough trying to “nose” my way into that lane, but that frankly sounds like a good way for me to get hit by someone who didn’t realize I was partially into that lane. (And I would have been way into the intersection at that point as I was already way up into the crosswalk stopped as it was with a car right behind me and no way to reverse).

I’ve been stuck at malfunctioning traffic lights myself, with a need to be at my destination by a particular time adding to the stress.

I used the “wait until I’m sure it’s not going to change, then wait for a VERY large break in traffic and just go” strategy myself.

I also got stuck at a red light once with a police car coming up behind me with lights and siren on, in the left lane of a two-lane one-way with cars solidly on my right. Car in front of me, too. The driver in front of me decided to run the red to get out of the way of the police car, I did likewise. I’ve since found out from people who drive emergency vehicles that this WAS the correct choice in that situation. “Get out of the way when you hear sirens and/or see flashing lights” trumps “obey traffic light”.

I found this Minnesota law 169.06 (it wouldn’t apply to me even if I were in Minnesota because I was driving a car):

Does anyone know of any similar laws that apply to cars in Texas?

Exactly the same thing happened to me last year - about six blocks from the OP! After about five minutes I just scooted across the junction, narrowly missing oncoming traffic. It was crazy!

Same thing happened to me about a year ago. Traffic wasn’t heavy, so eventually I just went ahead and turned left on red.

Because it was night, I didn’t realize that the SUV that had pulled up directly behind me was a cop and he lit me up before I was even half way through my turn. So I pulled into the next parking lot and we talked for a bit.

He was pretty cool about it and let me go without writing me a ticket. I asked him what I should have done and he said turning right (from the left turn lane) would have been safer.

I wouldn’t take that as some kind of gospel or even advice though - just his opinion. I’m pretty sure whatever you do in this type of situation, if a cop sees it, you will very shortly be having a chat with them.

ETA: I realize in your case that you couldn’t have turned right per your description of the traffic conditions - I was just relating my own story.

Question, then: if you end in the hospital after being t-boned by an oncoming car because you ran the red, whose fault is it?

The guy who didn’t slow down when he heard sirens and couldn’t tell where they were coming from?

That doesn’t make you any less dead, does it?

I understand the reason for the law — I just wish there were a better way to do it other than to risk your health hoping that other people aren’t idiots. We rail against people doing so in most other circumstances, after all.

At least partially yours. You shouldn’t go unless it’s safe. The other traffic should also stop, and then you can make your turn. If they aren’t stopping, you could wait for a gap.

Well, if that’s a big concern, then maybe driving isn’t such a good idea…

Also, a lot of cities now have white lights over traffic lights indicating there’s an emergency vehicle coming from a cross street. Nobody pays any attention to them, but they’re there. Plus, if it’s an ambulance that wants to get past you, once you get t-boned you’ve got emergency care right there.

Uh, what? This entire thread is about getting out of the way of emergency vehicles. I thought the whole point was so you didn’t wait and thus delay the emergency vehicle those precious minutes.

You get out of the way in a safe manner. You don’t just pull in front of an oncoming vehicle. Even emergency vehicles slow when they come to an intersection, to make sure any crossing traffic is slowing.

A common problem for me on a motorcycle. After two signal cycles I usually just go. Usually, though, by then a car is behind me and it’s sufficient to trigger.