Student loans, bankruptcy, and public policy

Before I start, I want to note that I claim no special expertise on this subject. Bankruptcy law is not my area, even though IAAL. I’m interested in debating policy about what the law should be, and not the fine points of what the law is today.

Background: Even with the recent changes, current U.S. bankruptcy law allows the discharge of most debts. There’s no overall requirement that the debtor be deserving in a moral or intellectual sense. As a rule, even if your own stupidity, foolishness or negligence caused or contributed to your state of indebtedness, your debts still may be discharged, and you get a fresh start.

The policy is well-rooted in American law and society. The power to adopt a bankrupcty law is expressly granted to Congress in the Constitution, and debtors’ prisons on the old British model were abolished by Congress over 200 years ago.

There are exceptions to discharge. For example, certain fraudulently obtained loans and child support obligations are nondischargeable. Since at least 1998, student loan debts have also been nondischargeable.

At the time, I supported this change in the law. I had paid my student loan debts, and had kept them low to begin with by being extremely frugal while in school, by saving before college, and by working during the summers and (to some extent) during the school year. I also personally knew of other students who had blown their loan money on spring break trips and expensive stereos, and I had read newspaper articles where newly-minted physicians escaped their student loans through bankruptcy before beginning their lucrative professional careers. The change in the law seemed obvious. Unlike most loan situations, a student loan receipient was expected to be in the red (overall), with no immediate source of income. Virtually any recent grad qualified for discharge under the old law.

Now, I’m not so sure. Some commentators think that the pendulum has swung too far the other way. See, for example, this article: http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Savinganddebt/Managedebt/P107758.asp

I’m aware of 3 people who are (or were) in situations similar to that described in the link – faced with a student loan debt that they cannot ever pay, barring a lottery win, or inheriting from a rich relative. None of these people are stupid, at least not in a general sense. Unlike the subject or the article, all three graduated with a college degree. (In fact, all 3 have 2 degrees – with a postgraduate degree in two of the cases.)

In the descriptions that follow, I’m going to avoid personal information and might change an unimportant detail or two to protect privacy, even though I don’t consider any of the three be be clients. (The relationship in each case is or was social, rather than professional.)

Person A. A is intelligent, and received a professional degree. A did nothing particularly stupid with the student loan money. However, A attended a private school in a large urban area, and lived in an apartment during years of school. With rent and tuition, upon graduation, A had over $50,000 in student loan debt. A’s profession, although potentially lucrative, does not always pay very well to start, and graduates sometimes cannot find a job right away. This was true of A. Except for a couple short-term temp jobs, A did not find employment for over a year. A also is somewhat math-challenged, and not particularly financially able. Perhaps for these reasons, A did not take advantage of some deferral options, and accordingly went into default. 18 months later, although finally employed, A was about $65,000 in debt due to penalties and interest.

A was lucky, though. Although the first job didn’t pay enough to support A and also make payments on the loan, A got some help from the parents, and a new personal relationship evolved into a live-in sitation, and A’s SO paid most of the household bills. Two years of this allowed A to keep current on the minimum payments. Still, though, a significant chunk of A’s net pay would have gone for the loan, for decades. Without the SO and family help to pay other expenses, repayment would have been doubtful. A eventually got a windfall (inheritance from a distant relative) and repaid the loan.

Person B. B was a long-time student. B.S., then M.A., a brief interval working a low-paid job, then years of pursuing a doctorate in a liberal arts field. Eventually, for reasons that I am not completely clear on, B’s dissertation was rejected, although all coursework was successfully completed. Even with a PhD., this field isn’t lucrative. The best B could have hoped for was a scarce assistant professor spot. There’s no private employment option. Without the PhD., even this small chance of an academic position disappeared. B lived extremely frugally during 12 years of school, but living expenses add up, and A now owes more than $100,000. B has no chance of even making payments that cover interest. B is 45, and has no prospect of any job paying more than $30,000 a year. Even that is questionable. B will be dealing with collection calls, and wage garnishments, for life. This loan will never be repaid. Unlike A, who had at least one wealthy relative and some social relationship prospects, B does not.

Person C. C grew up in a low income family that wasn’t tremendously stable. C’s original academic career had some interruptions, but eventually resulted in a B.S. from a well-regarded school. Unfortunately, the degree was in a liberal arts field that wasn’t in demand in the job market. Eventually, C realized this, and successfully obtained another degree in a marketable area. It’s not highly-paid, though.

C also is math and financially challenged, and apparently didn’t take full advantage of deferral and other loan repayment options that were available at various times. It is possible that some of the original loan proceeds were not wisely spent, but I don’t know this for sure. It appears that most of C’s current balance is actually accrued interest, penalties, and collection charges. Although I didn’t know C at the time, I suspect that C ignored loan payments from the first degree while pursuing the second degree. I am personally and professionally aware that Sallie Mae and other student loan agencies are not always helpful and accurate, so this may have contributed to C’s poor decisionmaking at the time. C’s current balance is well over $100,000. C’s annual income is not sufficient to pay reasonable living expenses and cover the interest on this loan. (C is stuck paying a high rate of interest on the main loan, because further consolidation is allegedly not available because of a default history.)

Like B, C has no wealthy relatives, and will never be able to repay the loan.

I don’t think these stories are all that unusual. So, although I’m strongly in favor of people paying their debts, I also don’t like the idea that poor (but non-criminal) decisions by people in their 20’s can result in an inescapeable lifetime of debt and dodging calls from Mr. Jones at the Acme collection agency. Also, wage garnishments don’t do much to improve one’s job prospects. A, B and C would have been better off if they blew the money at the track, rather than on college educations. Something’s not right about that, yet the 1990’s era change in the bankruptcy law addressed a real problem.

So, should the law be changed?

I know nothingof the situation in the USA (and it’s even more foreign to me since there’s no personnal bankruptcy in France and universities are free), but from what you said, wouldn’t allowing to be discharged of student loans too in case of bankruptcy providing that at least X years have elapsed since the loan was taken, or the degree completed solve both the problem of people unable to repay student loans and the issue of people defaulting on student loans before engaging in a lucrative career?

Maybe a law capping the monthly payment at some reasonable percentage of the borrower’s income would be better than outright discharge, even if that means extending the term of the loan.

Plus, it must be nice to have the IRS to help you out in the debt collecting.

I think an even more common case is the person who runs up student loan debt because they’re railroaded into college. I know a lot of these people. They go to college for a couple of years, never obtaining a lot of credits due to a couple of dropped classes every semester. They don’t have the desire and willpower to do college level work. They find out quickly that renting the movie won’t cut it in College English lit classes. They’ll go for a couple of years, but quickly drop out because they keep missing that 8am class…etc. etc.

Anyway, these people tend to be those who should never have been in college in the first place. They’re C students in high school, nice people, but don’t have any desire to spend another second in a classroom.

They drop out and then become a manager in a retail store or another career path which doesn’t require a degree.

And that’s ok. They never should have been in college in the first place.

However, they’re stuck with 20,000 or so in student loans. Since they didn’t graduate, they’re a lot less likely to feel any obligation to pay them back.

They should be required to pay a percentage of their income for ten years, after that discharge the loan. Ok, make it 12. But continuing to punish someone in their 30’s for a mistake made at age 18 is going a bit too far.

The whole tuition situation is the problem, not the loans.

As for your buddies, I’m always the first to go to bat for the poor. But I can’t get too worked up about people who don’t take advantage of the many deference/discharge options and people who pursue grad degrees they don’t have a plan for paying for. Grad school is something I’d like to do, too, but I can’t because it would be an incredibly poor investment. There has to be a point that you take responsibility for how much money you are throwing around. I agree the situation is a problem, but maybe those aren’t the best examples when drumming up support.

First, I think you need to drop all the extra fees and penalties. If a person declares bankruptcy, the goal is to get the debts paid and them back on their feet. Saddling them with outrageous penalties just makes it impossible for them to get things together.

Second

This is a good idea. Current bankruptcy law provides, IIRC, for a 5yr repayment plan, at an affordable percentage of income, when you don’t get outright dismissal. Extend this in the case of student loans, so that you can mitigate the “poor med school graduate” problem, where they earn little in the first few years, but much more later one. I might be inclined to say 15 years, because education pays off over time, not right away. A normal payment plan might take 10 years to pay it off, extending it 5 more for a lower payment doesn’t seem too harsh.

You pay an affordable percentage for 15 years, then your loan is discharged, that seems fair, and the student loan industry is a juicy target for defaults, keeping them down helps all future students get better rates.

College kids need to be held responsible, but to a point. I suppose they should be brow beaten for a bit and harrassed by collection agencies. Then, when bankruptcy is inevitable, they can disclaim liability for all their loans, but ping their credit history, but, give them the same start over as any other bankruptcy. I suppose that this isn’t much different than what it is now, excpet that they can eventually get out of the loan. What does it take for personal bankruptcy to leave the credit report and start thinigs anew? 7 years? Then, in my book, the college kid has to try to pay for at least that long, get harassed, learn his lesson, and then, he can go bankrupt. That way, the (eventually) rich doctor can wait 14 years to buy his house, rather than try to skip out on a loan.

I (and apparently most of the other responders) agree that something on this model would be an improvement. I especially like matzinger’s idea of making the student/debtor feel some pain. Seven years is too short, though. I pretty sure normal repayment schedules exceed this term, so a discharge this quick would still be too much of an incentive to default, ot at least pay the absolute minimum for the initial period.

BTW, no personal bankruptcy in France? I didn’t know that. What happens when someone gets into deep debt and can’t pay? Is he pursued for life?

I would guess the law is to prevent doctors and lawyers with massive student loan debts and reliable high incomes from declaring bankruptcy as a matter of course. Credit isn’t all that important to a doctor hauling in 6 figures. They will usually not have trouble getting a mortgage with this kind of income despite bad credit.

This is a guess.

Basically, yes. I remember there had been talks about implementing a personnal bankruptcy law not long ago, but I don’t think it went that far.

If you’re badly indebted, you can present your situation to a commission that will propose a plan to you and your creditors (and even that is relatively recent). Depending on your situation, the plan might include spreading the payments over a longer period, suspending them for some duration, very often suppressing future interests, and possibly dropping interests already acrued, maybe (but I’m not sure) dropping part of the principal. In the only example I know about, an unemployed friend had her payments suspended for 3 or 4 years, and she had then to pay only what she owed at this point, without more interests acummulating.

Creditors aren’t obligated to accept the plan, but will generally do so because courts can and usually will follow the recommandation of the commissions.

However, you’ll still owe at least most of (if not all) the principal, and indeed, even after having your assets seized, you might have to repay your debts for life. Only part of your income can be garnished though (it works like taxes: , nothing for an income below 400 €/month, A% of the part of your income up to Z€/month, B% of the part of the income between Z an Y€/month, 10% of the part above Y€/month) but I think that what you can keep, in the best case, is below 1500€/month. Don’t know how much exactly.
Lacking the risk of acruing debts as a result of a medical condition, though, there are few instances when a person would manage to accumulate enough debts to find himself in a situation where he would have to pay them back for life without having severely messed up.

I’ve heard of only one person in this situation, the husband of a coworker who had gambled on the stockmarket and lost way more than he owned and could ever hope to earn. I understand a common situation when it happens are people who’re responsible for an accident, owe high amounts of dammages and weren’t insured. That’s the reason why I always paid my liability insurance before paying anything else, rent and utilities included.

However, it’s eay to imagine a situation when a person who didn’t mess up would end up paying back for many, many years. For instance a low income worker takes a loan in order to buy a house, loses his job, and his house is seized and sold for significantly less than he owed. It also makes more difficult for a person to get back on his feet since his creditors we’ll be on his back as soon as he get a job and an income. Especially if he owes taxes, because for debts owed to the state, everything you earn above roughly 400€/month can be garnished.
People aren’t pushing for a personnal bankruptcy law, because the concept is unheard of. And even if it were, lacking the saddening example of a person who’s indebted due to huge medical bills, the ordinary joe isn’t going to feel very sorry for someone who accumulated enormous debts.
Also, french people are generally less indebted than american people. In particular, most people don’t have a credit card and use a debit card instead. People also normally only take a mortgage when they buy their house, while from what I understand reading this board, american people often take a second mortgage to secure a loan later. However, revolving credits with high interest rates proposed by financial companies (usually not by one’s own bank) are now widespread, and people buying a house/appartment also seem to now take loans for an unreasonnably large amount. So, I suppose french people are heading towards higher level of debts than they used to.

I think that’s pecisely what the OP stated.

This was the law for a long time. We actually changed it.

http://www.ed.gov/offices/OSFAP/DCS/loan.cancellation.discharge.html

Of course, if a business files for bankruptcy, it is subject to no exceptions to discharge at all.

Then, why exactly has it been changed? Maybe 7 years would have been too short a period to prevent the doctor mentionned in the OP’s example from defaulting on his debts, but why not simply pick a longer period, for instance?

IIRC, there was a separate provision that made some med school debts non-dischargeable or imposed a longer time period (10 years maybe?) for some medical school debts.

And IIRC, the reason was that Congress thought there were too many student loans being discharged. The student loans covered by this provision are guaranteed by the federal government. So the idea was that it was draining the pool of money available for future loan guarantees. I’ll see if I can find something more specific a bit later.

Canadian bankruptcy law was changed a few years ago to eliminate the same “get out of university & declare bankruptcy” tactic as mentioned in the OP, but student loans are excluded only for the first 10 years after leaving school, after which they become dischargeable if bankruptcy is declared.

Yes. I thought the most recent changes to the bankruptcy laws were ill-advised, and the removal of the seven-year limit was similarly misguided.

The latest: Earlier today, the Supreme Court ruled that the government can seize part of a disabled person’s monthly Social Security benefit (or that of a retiree) to pay off old student loans.

I’m basing this on news reports, as I have not yet read the decision. But, as described, the Supreme Court seems to have ruled correctly, in that this is what Congress intended when it enacted (or amended) the applicable statutes.

Ridiculous result from a policy view, though.
Cite from Chicago Tribune: (may require registration)

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-051207scotus-story,1,554350.story?coll=chi-news-hed

Yes; however, I think it should include provisions designed to prevent the kind of abuse that was previously occuring.

For example, perhaps something like:
The amount of student loan debt that cannot be discharged in a bankruptcy is equal to the median annual salary (as tabulated by the Bureau of Labor Statistics) of those with similiar academic credentials to and five years more work experience then the debtor.
IANAL or a legislator (for which we can all be thankful), so I acknowledge that my proposal is massively imprecise, and probably has holes big enough to slip billions through. But you get the picture.

As a side effect of this, I think student loan lenders will scrutinize the choices the recipients are making more closely–giving $120,000 to someone going for a Cuneiform PhD would be a much less attractive option then it is now. This would actually be unfortunate, because it would mean fewer people persuing degrees that their truly passionate about and more people persuing a degree purely as a business decision. But we’re almost there already, so what’s another nail in the liberal arts coffin?

The case: http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/07dec20051050/www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/05pdf/04-1140.pdf (pdf)

I thinks that’s actually the other opinion handed down today, mentioned at the end of the Tribune article. Here’s the student loan opinion:

http://wid.ap.org/documents/scotus/051207lockhart.pdf