[QUOTE=MaxTheVool]
An analogy: The vast majority of victims of violent rape are women. But a few are men. QUOTE]
And you know this how? Are you taking prison rapes into account? I understand that a number of experts on the subject believe or suspect that male rape happens much more often than is generally known–among other things, Human Rights Watch considers the prison rape problem in American prisons extreme enough to be a serious human rights violation.
Sigh. Will a mod kindly fix that quote? Thank you.
Note that my question was not “why should we EVER talk about anti-white racism”, it was “why can’t we have A discussion about anti-black racism without giving EQUAL TIME to anti-white racism”. I’m not saying “let’s have anti-black racism be the only kind we ever talk about, there are no other kinds, la la la, I can’t hear you”. I’m saying “anti-black racism is a MORE SERIOUS PROBLEM, by a huge margin, than anti-white racism. Thus, it merits its own discussions, and it’s silly to give a false appearance of balance by always bringing up equal incidents of anti-white racism.”
Honestly, I’m still a little unclear about exactly what you mean by this real problem.
I’m a white guy, and after reading this thread and thinking about my own life and all the incidents I’ve heard about from other people, I still can’t get very alarmed about anti-white racism. Here are four things I’ve come up with:
(1) In certain neighborhoods, white guys get beat up
-This is certainly a serious issue. However, those neighborhoods are few and far between, and are generally not places someone would WANT to go anyhow.
(2) Affirmative action might de-favor me in college admissions and a few related areas
-This is a tricky issue and not one I can not dismiss out of hand. But it’s quite limited in scope, and clearly plenty of white men succeed and get into college (as did I myself) despite it
(3) People assuming that all whites are racist
-This would kind of suck, but… so? Sticks and stones…
(4) Random people hating me because I’m white
-This would also kind of suck, but… what are the odds that these people are going to be hiring me, running homeowners’ associations where I want to move, being cops, being judges, etc?
As for the vaunted extreme liberal left and their anti-white sentiments, can anyone actually figure out how that would ever matter in a practical sense? The only example I can come up with is Michael Moore pledging that he will only hire black people. So that reduces my available job opportunities by, ummm, a VERY small amount. Look at it this way… imagine the most spittle-emitting lefty “the-white-race-is-a-cancer” type of caricature that you can, but one who happens to be white. Now imagine this person’s kid bringing a white date home to meet the parents. What happens? To engage in a little stereotyping for a moment, I suspect that the REAL problem would be if the kid was dating a (gasp!) Republican.
So now the Republicans are winning because the left never talks about anti-white racism? Huh.
Really? “Seriously suffered”? I double dog dare you to start a thread entitled “White People, when have you personally seriously suffered from racism” and see what kind of responses you get. Oh, wait, the SDMB is all liberally, so we’re all in denial because it wouldn’t fit our politically correct mindset, I forgot.
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat]
Actually, there was an SDMB thread rather recently in which the question “how common is prison rape” was asked and the answer (from people who work in prisons) seemed to be “not nearly as often as stereotypes would have you believe”.
Regardless, that’s not really germaine, as I’m talking about things like a college or city having an anti-rape seminar and focussing most of the discussion on what women, specifically, should do to avoid getting raped. As no one in prison would be attending that seminar, and no one in that seminar would be planning to go to prison, it’s really a completely separate issue.
(Similarly, I’d imagine that prison is a place where it’s very likely that there is significant amounts of anti-white racism, maybe more than anti-black racism, but that has very little bearing on society as a whole.)
Also, even if my analogy was utterly flawed from the beginning, please actually address the meat of what I’m saying, rather than just pick nits… thanks.
I can’t believe you’re being so obtuse. The reason the issue was brought up in the first place is that there is a huge difference between the average experience of white people in America (throughout history) and the average experience of black people in American (throughout history). Which is not to say that there haven’t been some cases where white people have suffered discrimination and bigotry. But going on and on and on about Irish and Italian people, and trying to somehow compare that to the experience of blacks, is just insulting and preposterous. Fine, someone in this thread may have described the situation in terms which could be quibbled with and argued to not be precisely accurate. But the overall point is that the racism that blacks suffer today is the end result of hundreds of years of continuous oppression and subjugation. The racism that white suffer today is NOT due to any continuous oppression OR subjugation. Whatever prejudice non-Wasp immigrants suffered in the late 1800s or early 1900s is totally unrelated to any of the examples of anti-white racism that have been brought up in this thread.
Honestly, you’re a smart guy, if you want to make a meaningful point here, go ahead and make it, don’t get involved in a ridiculous little gotcha match about irrelevant side issues.
Now you’re comparing apples and oranges. If women were 10% of the population, or white people where more prone to be racist, then you would have a point. Just because black racists have less of an opportunity to hurt whites due to their minority numbers does not make it any less of a problem, or less noteworthy. If 20% of the white employers discriminate in hiring and the same percent of blacks do the same, it is just as big of a problem. I am all for attempts at stopping racism. But I totally oppose anything that raises a certain race above the others. It is inherently racist and counterproductive to fighting racism. Penalizing whites’ just because their majority, is just as bad as penalizing a minority due to their numbers.
Now your just rationalizing racism because it doesn’t effect you personally. Just because you havn’t experienced it doesn’t mean it’s not there or even a problem in areas you are “lucky” enough not to be in. Maybe once you were beat down, or passed over for a job then your attitude would change? This is not fighting ignorance, it’s just sharing yours.
But in this thread no one has provided any evidence that blacks discriminate anywhere in proportion to whites. You are trapped in the realm of baseless conjecture. Anyone can speculate and speak about racism theoretically. Yes, blacks could be harboring all types of evil prejudices against whites, but where’s the proof of it?
See how the “it’s inherently racist” card is played to justify stopping the discussion? See how once that label is afixed to something, the hands go up over the ears? Pretty predictable.
How is anyone being penalized?
Who needs proof when you dismiss it out of hand as “not a problem”? How about these apples, if you think whites are more prone to be racist, then you show evidence. The only baseless conjecture I see is that we need to assume whites are more prone to racism thatn blacks. That is discrimnatory i.e. racist.
blahblahblah. Come back bring pie. Or better yet, debate the premise.
How is anyone being penalized?
AA comes to mind. Tell the people who were victims of racism that their issues aren’t as important because their race doesn’t have an equitable history. I am pretty damn sure that all victims of racism probably feel the same no matter what their pigment is.
For the upteenth time, I’ve never said that whites are more racist. I’ve said the implications of their racist bias are more significant than the biases of blacks because they produce significant socioeconomic effects.
You has yet to support your assertion that anti-white bias is “just as bad” as anti-black. How can you say it is “just as bad” if you have no proof?
Who said that?
Not when a significant majority of employers are white, it’s not.
Hence,
So, in other words, “we don’t need to study how bad anti-white bias is among blacks because we have no proof that whites are not more racist than blacks.” 
I don’'t have the time to spam as many rolleyes that I think this deserves. 
Give me a motherfucking break with this bullshit. In a majority black neighborhood it would have a very significant effect to the whites that live there. And if you don’t think a minority can effect a majority with it’s racism, look at aparthied Africa.
Doesn’t it?
I mean, even if we assume for a moment that blacks are exactly as racist as whites, if blacks are (a) a relatively small minority, and (b) generally not as likely to be in positions of power (where their racism can have a wider effect), then it DOES make it less of a problem and less noteworthy. I mean, what if it turned out that the most racist people in the US were recent immigrants from Tanzania. Well, bluntly, who would give a rat’s ass?
And even so, I strongly suspect that blacks, in general, are NOT as anti-white racist as whites are anti-black racist, and if they are it’s in sufficiently different ways that it ought to be discussed separately. I’m willing to have my mind changed if someone can produce research that shows otherwise, but anti-black racism is the still-extant end product of slavery+jim crow, etc. Anti-white is general xenophobia (which also contributes to anti-anything racism) plus backlash and resentment from anti-black racism. Now, it’s possible that anti-black racism among whites, given its sources, and anti-white racism among blacks, given its origins, happen to have coincidentally stabilized at almost the same level. But that seems unlikely.
I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying here… if someone did a study and found out that blacks had a vastly higher rate of teen pregnancy and high school dropouts than whites, and someone wanted to spend some federal money to investigate why this might be and investigate possible solutions, would you be totally opposed to that, because it was focussing on only a single race?
Who’s penalizing whites?
But it’s not just me, here… it’s me and basically every white person I know, which is a pretty large number. Maybe anti-white racism IS a large problem for significant numbers of white people. Maybe I just happen to luckily not know them, or not know that about them. I certainly can’t discount that possibility.
But until someone shows me some data, or some informal survey of dopers pops out dozens of horror stories, I’m going to continue to believe that I’m not just a freakishly lucky guy with a freakishly lucky peer group and family.
A black man gets beat to death by racists = a white man being beat to death by racists. We don’t need to know why racists are racists in order to condemn it. It is also likely that more blacks are racists because of history. We don’t focus on that. We focus on anti-black racism and say stupid shit like whites are more racist than blacks…without any evidence because to study anti-white racism is somehow trivial. 3000 victims of anti black hate crimes last year. 1000 victims of anti-white hate crimes. That is not a one sided issue. Racism encompases both sets of victims. This is exactly the crap that makes people like jsgoddess come off as anti-white when taking these tests. Somehow blacks are this inculpable race that has an excuse for racism, and whites have this inherent problem that must be dealt with.
Misnomer. Nothing has been proven that whites have a higher rate of racism in the sense that you use. A proper analogy would be to accuse the white girls of teen pregnancy/dropouts rates because there is more white girls than black girls. I would have a problem with that.
[/QUOTE]
Who’s penalizing whites?
[/QUOTE]
Already asked and answered.
What makes me people like me “come off as anti-white”?
Sorry, no offense, I meant the fact that you scored more partial to blacks in the test. Kind of using the same criteria they used in saying more white pubs where anti-black.
No offense taken, but I still don’t know which “crap” you mean.
Are you saying that the test has to be flawed because such a result is impossible/unlikely? Or are you saying that I’m buying into some “crap” which makes my test results possible?
Clearly. But 10 black men getting beat to death by racists does NOT equal a white man getting beat to death by racists. And if your crime stats are correct, then blacks are almost 30 times as likely to be victims of hate crims as whites.
Furthermore, while violent hate crimes are certainly one of the most horrifying parts of racism, they’re also (paradoxically) one of the easiest to deal with. Someone commits a violent hate crime, we throw his ass in jail. Presto. One less racist walking around. But what about the insidious racism that comes from general prejudices built into society? Black kids grow up knowing that no one who looks like them has ever been president, and that most of the images they see of people who look like them are either athletes, musicians or criminals. White kids grow up knowing that EVERYONE who has been president looks like them, as have a great majority of scientists and authors and so forth. How important is that? Well, it beats me. But it isn’t something I’m making up, and you can’t make it go away by closing your eyes super-tight and insisting that everyone faces equal amounts of racism.
Do you have any evidence that that’s NOT true? If not, what makes you call it “Stupid shit”? I mean, maybe it’s true, maybe it’s not, but I don’t think it makes sense to start from the automatic default position that, despite the huge cultural differences facing blacks and whites, they will somehow end up equally racist.
Can you tell me how you get EITHER of those statements from anything I’ve said?
Uhhh… what? Misnomer? I have no idea what you’re talking about. My question is what you meant by "But I totally oppose anything that raises a certain race above the others. It is inherently racist and counterproductive to fighting racism. "
Pardon me for being a dumbass then, but this has been a long thread… can you point me towards where it was asked and answered?