So this justifies making up shit off the top of your head? Come on.
“It may be true”, scientifically, presupposes even a sliver of evidence for your idea. If you have zero evidence, you’re diddling in fantasy.
-J-
I’ve never said categorically that magick doesn’t exist. I’ve said there’s NO EVIDENCE that it exist, that the statements about magick are nonfalsifiable, and that it’s a waste of time to reorganize one’s life around a nonoperational belief system (Neo-Paganism) the “proof” of which consists of a series of dubious “facts” and shifting rationalizations for one’s successes and failures.
Like I said: Show me the money. Gimme something to show that magick is more than a figment of the human imagination, and I’ll dive right in. Show me that praying for $300 is more effective than GOING OUT AND EARNING $300, and I’ll set up an altar and grab an athame lickety-split. Show me that burning incense and visualizing health can cure cancer better than a doctor schooled for ten years in the field of oncology, and I’ll be yours.
But, no. You’ll notice that, despite magick books from Kraig’s MODERN MAGICK to Bonewits’ REAL MAGIC trumpeting magick as both “an art and a science,” NO ONE has yet posited any positive scientific proof for magick on this thread. NO ONE has provided one categorically falsifiable statement about magick.
That’s not science - it’s self-deception. Learn the difference.
And, BTW, which statements on this board were “logically wrong”? Quotes, please.
-J-
My dear Jay, I present a handful, for your logical consideration. Let’s start with the impressive
then move to the sweeping
before looking at induced opinion
and then, how about the almost beatifully silly:
So, religion is only for the feeble minded. Every question has only one answer. It is more likely that something cannot exist then something may challenge our knowledge of science. Accepting rules which we are unable to prove for ourself (assuming Monty is not able to reproduce every proof for formulas he routinely accepts) is not an act of faith.
So, what shall we do now? Let’s be honest - our positions are entrenched, our beliefs unlikely to quickly change through the other persons argument. For the sake of everyone elses boredom shall we take this to email, agree to differ, or continue this ad infinitum?
Point the first: Gary, you haven’t demonstrated how those quotations of yours are illogical.
Point the second:
Find a single quote of mine that demonstrates this. Until you do, you are either a simpleton or a liar (and there IS evidence to prove THIS).
Spoofe, I’ll use very small words here. I still hold little hope of you keeping up.
Illogical statement 1: Very intelligent people who have religious belies should be ashamed of themselves. Do you honestly hold that to be true? Why should someone ever be ashamed of their faiths?
Illogical statement 2: Every question has just one correct answer. A statement that is either patently false (look at the number of contradicting philosophies present) or has to be defined to something so vague as to be meaningless.
Illogical statement 3: (too long to paste in again, go look at it)It’s inductive reasoning. Neither of the statements has any more value other than the individuals opinion.
Illogical statement 4: Accepting someone else’s mathematical theorem as rules is not an act of faith. Unless you can follow Andrew Wiles’s use of number theory, you aretaking it on faith that there is a proof to it.
As for your accusation that I’m misquoting you, please bother to read the thread. The statement of “trying to prove a negative” was first aimed at Czar, after she posted thsi hypothesis:
“2. Magic, because no evidence has ever been shown for it’s existance, does not exist”
When I then replied that “you’re trying to prove that something DOES NOT exist” you chimed in with
"We’re not trying to prove a negative, you idiot! We’re trying to get someone else to prove a positive!"
So, which ‘we’ do you mean, as you were responding to my comments on Czar’s postings?
Now then Spoofe, please present that evidence for your claim that I’m a liar and a simpleton, please? Oh and feel free to start a new thread for the subject, I’d be more than happy for an exchange of pleasantries with you.
Kum, you are a stupid fuck who DOESN’T believe in magic. The evidence for that conclusion is all of your posts on this thread. In spite of the efforts of all the other posters here, you persist in claiming that we did things we either did not do or have retracted or apologized for.
Therefore, you are a stupid fuck. I hope you aren’t planning to breed.
What’s the matter, did the nasty man not agree with you? Ah, da nasty man. Did he quote you on things that you “have retracted or apologized for”. Ah, what a big, bad meanie.
How about you try to not say things you’ll have to retract or apologize for, and I won’t quote you on them.
Shit, what a dull little loser you are, prick.
Sure thing. I can do it with a single word: “context”.
But since you seem dedicated to being stubborn in this matter, I’ll elaborate.
You picked the quote from Czar - “2. Magic, because no evidence has ever been shown for it’s existance, does not exist” - and reacted as if this were a declaritive statement from him. It is not. It is him pointing out the two extremes to the issue (“Magic exists or it doesn’t”). Surely his comment of “which of these claims are more extraordinary?” should have indicated this.
As with the other quotes, you are correct with the first two (my apologies), but the latter two, I think, are 100% correct, in that A: the claim that magic exists is far more unlikely than the claim that it doesn’t, and B: this ISN’T a matter of faith, this is a matter of “show me some fucking magic or shut up”.
Surely even YOU can spot the difference between our statement of “We want some evidence before we believe” and your “Since there’s no contrary evidence, I won’t not-believe”.
[Mod Hat: ON]
Okay, folks, consider this advance notice. (I was about to say “a warning”, but realized that might sound like you were actually doing something wrong, which you aren’t.)
When a thread gets to be this size, it starts getting flaky in terms of board performance. So I’m going to close this thread once this hits page 9. If you want, create a “Stupid Fucks and Magic, Pt 2” thread to continue your discussions; or, create a new thread (preferably with a different title) in GD for a more rational discussion.
Thanks!
[Mod Hat: OFF]
You mean like this one?
As for Gary Kum: Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names sure piss YOU off! 
Neener, neener, neener!
(Yeah, that’s childish, but you deserve no better.)
One more thing, Gary: Do you believe you are so perfect that you have NEVER needed to retract anything or apologize? If so, are you seeing a therapist for this delusion?
Forgive me for not being as perfect as you, asshole.
Nope. I do make mistakes, get called out on them, and even apologise for them. I just don’t then start bleating when someone points this out. Especially if I title the thread “Stupid fucks…” - but thanks for the comic hypocrisy, which you then perfectly continue with
From the guy who said “sticks and stones…”
Jab1, thanks for the comedy. With all the entertainment you provide, how could I not forgive you?
Wow! Did you take a beating in the “Does Magic Exist?” thread! (Note that newbie JayAndrewAllen accidentally made a triplepost on that thread. Dude needs to learn to trust the php!) I noticed you haven’t posted there since you foolishly agreed with Ex-Tank’s indeterminate, meaningless statement that someday, somehow, magic MAY be proven to exist.* Wha’ hoppen? Didja turn coward, tuck your tail betwixt your legs and run off, crying like a nine-month-old girl?
*I predict that someday, somehow, pigs MAY grow wings and learn to fly. Don’t ask me how. You never told us how magic may be proven to exist.
Saint Peter on a pogo stick, JAB, can’t you let a horse die in peace?
Ah, why it’s my favourite pet loser.
Jab, my little parochial friend, there is a world outside of the USA. The concept of time zones is no doubt one that will confuse the shit out of you, but it’s a rather important one. It means that some people are actually operating on a different time to you, so may even be sleeping when you’re awake. Gosh, gee, go figure.
Even more amazing, some people do have a job to do, so can’t spend their entire day posting on the straight dope.
And finally, and here’s one that will really confound you, some people have friends and family they want to see in real life. I know you’ll have trouble imagining this, but it really is true.
And these three factors sometimes mean that a few hours may go by between postings. So, now I’ll go have a look at Great Debates, have a bit of fun there, and hope that in the future you’ll take a little time before making statements that you have to retract. Two in one thread - that’s becoming a bit of a habit.
Saint Peter on a pogo stick, GARY, can’t you let a horse die in peace?
He/she has been dead for quite some time.
Since you don’t bother to tell people your hometown (or state or country) in your Profile, how the hell am I supposed to know where you live?