Sure they can. No one can say that no people with CCWs commit armed mayhem, but one example does not in itself disprove “less prone”.
True. However, we cannot assume “less prone.” Without evidence, we can only assume the null hypothesis - no more or less prone than the larger population.
Huh? The evidence is that people who are armed commit more armed mayhem than those who are not. All of it, in fact.
Aaron Alexis: Navy Yard gunman treated for paranoia and hearing voices in his head
What the voices in my head tell me: great candidate for owning a gun…
But he was a “law-abiding citizen” before yesterday, was he not?
Well, then. Shall Issue.
Twitter:
Nope. You’re wrong. Any opportunity we get to institute gun control is going to be taken over by idiots who will just fuck it up for everyone.
Really? How are you going to do that? Any gun control measure you want to pass is going to need 60 senate votes. Can you point to 60 senators that would vote for draconian kneejerk gun control regulations? Can you point to 50?
How do you think you are going to stop mass murders? Short of amending the constitution and confiscating all the guns (BTW, good luck with that), how would you stop mass murder (lets pretend that guns are the only way you can kill a bunch of people)?
As far as I can tell, your side is the one that isn’t getting a seat at the table. You didn’t even get a ridiculously mild law to require background checks at gun shows. It was the most meaningless fig leaf of gun control I have ever seen and you couldn’t even get that, you were just left standing there with your tits flapping in the wind. Your side could have had something like background checks at guns shows passed in january but you guys had visions of gun ban and magazine caps dancing in your heads and by the time you pulled them out of your collective asses, the train had left the station and you got nothing.
You’re telling me you couldn’t go down 3 or 4 posts to read people agreeing that the Manchin Toomey might have had a chance before all the idiocy with the AWB?
(A) I didn’t oppose the Manchin Toomey bill.
(B) If nothing can ever work, then you might as well pack it up, go home and cry into your pillow.
I support reasonable gun control, you think a total gun ban and confiscation of all guns from law abdiing citizens is reasonable. The rest of us think you’re crazy.
Yes you can.
Bullshit. I’ve provided evidence several times on several occassions and your response has been perilously close to saying “well its not in a Harvard study so its worthless as evidence”
So here it is again:
I use homicides because honicide information is generally conisdered to be fairly reliable.
I have data from Florida and Texas
Florida: The Violence Policy Center (a gun grabbing organization) identifies 10 murders by CCW holders in Florida in a 2 year period.
There are 1.3 million CCW holders.
About 1.1 are private citizens the rest are folks like retired cops, security offices, etc.
That a murder rate of under 0.5 (per 100,000/year).
The murder rate in America is 4.8, the murder rate in Florida is about 5.2.
This assumes that the Violence Policy Center identified all the incidences of CCWs arrested for committing murder (and they seem to have made every effort to do so). This also assumes that all CCW murderers got caught but the apprehension rate on murder is consistently high (3.6 of the 4.8 are arrested)http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2010-crime-statistics
So while the numbers may not be exact, the numbers indicate a noticable difference between CCWs and the general public.
I wish I had the statistic for exactly how many people were arrested for murder in Florida (that would be a better comaprison) but I think this information is useful as well.
You’ve seen the texas information before and basically dismissed it because it was raw data presented by a gun nut but I still don’t see how raw data becomes inaccurate because of who presents the information.
What percentage of gun murderers were previously law abiding citizens? How many people do they kill?
How many lives are saved by armed law abiding citizens?
Mostly, they kill themselves. What is rarely talked about is the enormously increased likelihood of a successful suicide when guns are available, and the increased likelihood of a suicide attempt occurring in the first place.
Followed by accidental discharge, which obviously can have a negative effect on others living in or present in the household.
Both suicides using a gun and accidental discharge are far more likely to occur than anyone (who isn’t a police officer) stopping a crime in progress using a gun.
ETA: I am on the side of the complete removal of guns as being unworkable and insane, but many of the hardcore pro-gun arguments are equally insane, and often invalid to boot.
Bottom line: some reasonable of amount of gun control is obviously necessary.
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
You’re telling me you couldn’t go down 3 or 4 posts to read people agreeing that the Manchin Toomey might have had a chance before all the idiocy with the AWB?
[/quote]
They’re all from you.
Aaron Alexis heard voices in his head, too.
Was somebody else borrowing your password when you wrote this, just yesterday?
[/quote=Damuri Ajashi]
We just defeated a bill that instituted background checks at gun shows for fucks sake.
[/quote]
Nobody said nothing can ever work. What it takes is to work around people like you, not try to bring you to reason. That doesn’t work on you psychopaths.
Except when it actually comes up for a vote.
Still looking for corroboration from anyone besides your voices.
More than zero. Balancing that is, well, what?
Yesterday? None.
You’ve linked several times to one analysis by some guy in Texas. The fact that you can mischaracterize my response so badly (as you do here and again below) illustrates how fundamentally unable you are in understanding it.
You have a bad habit of misrepresenting what other people or organizations say. Since you do not link to the Violence Policy Center, we cannot check whether what you say is accurate. My strong suspicion is that while the VPC may have identified 10 murders in Florida by CCW holders, they never said anything remotely suggesting that this was ALL of the murders in Florida by CCW holders.
In fact, here is specifically what they have to say on the issue:
http://www.vpc.org/press/1211ccw2.htm
So, cite for us where VPC concluded there were ONLY 10 murders by CCW people in Florida. If you cannot, your conscience should compel you to explicitly retract this argument. I firmly suspect you will not, both because you are too stupid to recognize why what I just said is a problem for your argument, and because you lack any sort of integrity whatsoever.
There are lots of problems with that “analysis”, none of which involve *ad hominem *argument on my part. I’ll make this as simple as I can. Using that report that you’ve cited several times, tell me what the number of CCW carriers is in Texas in any given year. Tell me what the total population of Texas is.
Basic information is missing from that presentation, making it extremely suspect. If the guy can’t even provide the numerators to the reader, he’s failed at the most primary step.
And once again we bring you back to “Stupid Gun News of the Day” with the ever popular: “Let’s play the gun game! Fun for boys and girls of all ages.”
Basically the babysitter/boyfriend routinely plays the game where the three year old points his finger and goes “bang, bang” at the b/b. Then the b/b points his real gun at the kid and pulls the trigger. Jocularity all around. Except, oops, I forgot I loaded the gun.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
19 Gun Fails (video):
It’s certainly crap in a great many scenarios. The thing about defensive gun use, IMHO, is that it takes a very specific kind of training that is not particularly common except among security guards and protective detail types–the ability to see the signs that someone is about to attack and being able to prepare to deal with it.
Certainly true.
If you actually want my honest opinion? It comes down to fear–specifically, the NRA/LaPierre/TeaParty-stoked fear that violent criminals are everywhere, and that any attempt to restrain gun ownership whatsoever is a prelude to a confiscation/ban. The best way I can see forward is a meeting of the minds with the middle-ground gun owners of all major stripes (self-defense die-hards, hunters/sportsmen, and recreational shooters) and crafting gun law with the mentality that getting the support of that class of folks requires taking their concerns about confiscatory policy into account.
It wouldn’t even take much: Toomey-Manchin’s bill, by including language specifically prohibiting gun registries, was running at 65% public support according to Gallup. The idea of a renewed “assault weapon ban” hits 50-50 at best. Given that ~20% of the electorate on either side of any issue is crazy hyperpartisan, a 15-point margin of approval is significant.
At that point it’s just a question of convincing your Congresscritter to actually listen to the people instead of the lobbyists, but if I could solve THAT one we’d be landing on Mars by now.
Starbucks to gun nutters: keep your guns out of our stores!
Damuri Ajashi, have you got that cite yet that confirms the Violence Policy Center said there were 10 and only 10 murders committed by CCW people in Florida?
Again, their stated position, as I quoted above, is that their figures represent only a minority of cases. So I eagerly await your citation to the contrary.
Note that it’s a request, specifically not a ban. They simply wanted to remain neutral but weren’t allowed to, as much by the “gun banners” as the “gun nutters”.
“Gun nutters” were holding open-carry meetings at Starbucks locations along a “guns-n-coffee” theme.
“Gun banners” were not holding any kind of meetings at Starbucks.
How do you think both sides are equal in this?
And customers and potential customers were intimidated and frightened by people openly carrying murder weapons.
“So, would you like to try our alfalfa sprout nut bar along with your ven… GET DOWN. BLAM BLAM BLAM! Sorry ma’am didn’t mean to make your child cry and wet itself; I thought I saw a Mexican.”