90 deaths a day by gun … I know that includes suicides and accidents but holy shit! It’s more in two days than we have in a year.
It pricks the conscience less when you discount the suicides and the black people. That’s how we roll.
Say the gang members and the drug dealers; I take no responsibility for the ethnic or racial makeup of either.
It’s our lax gun laws that put guns in their hands, just as the almighty and holy NRA intends.
Spoken like someone smugly content in their middle class entitlement.
I’m presuming that that’s rhetorical hyperbole, and that you don’t actually believe that the NRA wants to empower career criminals. As for lax laws, you do understand the concept of criminals being accomplished at breaking laws, don’t you? If guns were completely illegal there’d still be armed gangs and drug dealers.
If I have any entitlement, it’s because I followed the rules and lived like a citizen, instead of a parasite or predator.
The NRA wants to empower all citizens regardless of occupation.
If they are white, of course.
"A New York Times review of hundreds of child firearm deaths found that accidental shootings occurred roughly twice as often as the records indicate, because of idiosyncrasies in how such deaths are classified by the authorities. "
"The National Rifle Association cited the lower official numbers this year in a fact sheet opposing “safe storage” laws, saying children were more likely to be killed by falls, poisoning or environmental factors — an incorrect assertion if the actual number of accidental firearm deaths is significantly higher. "
We really do need to keep better records in order to make sound rules and regulations on gun ownership rights and responsibilities.
So, hang on, taking the NRA figures means more people killed other people by gun - they prefer that to accidental death by gun. This makes no sense on any planet.
Really, why doesn’t everyone just buy golf clubs …
:rolleyes: Have you ever tried to kill a person 100 yards away with nothing but a golf ball and a 9 iron? :dubious:
No way, I saw the trouble they’ve caused Tiger Woods.
I would have no problem with such “accidents” being legally considered negligent manslaughter, like drunk driving deaths. There’s no excuse for pointing an “empty” gun at someone and pulling the trigger, or not keeping guns secured in houses with children.
How about keeping 'em from happening in the first place, then? You good with that?
That’s why I support mandatory safe storage laws, including inspections by local police.
A law abiding citizen is one that obeys the law. Its not really that tough.
There is no guarantee that anyone will always obey the law.
[quote]
You finally found someone to tell you how many? How many times did you have to ask? What was the answer?
I’ve always had some idea how many defensive gun uses there are, I just keep asking hentor because his only response to any evidence of defensive gun use is that none of the studies are reliable enough for his tastes.
It is clear that your side of the argument is losing pitifully in the real world and doing extremely poorly on this board (for a “liberal” position) and I can see why this makes you angry. It must be very frustrating.
Go live in a bubble, you’ll feel better and the rest of us won’t have to listen to you.
Considering teh second amendment, what blunt instrument approach is available to us? Or are we assuming away the constitution again?
How does any of your proposals disarm the psychopath killers? How does it deal with the fallout of disarming the law abiding citizenry while leaving the cirminals fully armed.
I agree that suicides are much more likely to succeed if attempted with a gun (its really ahrd to argue otherwise). I agree that a some (but not all) of these suicides could be avoided by not allowing these people access to guns. BUT, in light of Hellers recogniztion to an individual right to own a gun, how do you keep guns away from people that may commit suicide? Or are we assuming away the 2nd amendment?
Aaaand THERE it is. Gun nuts are racists. These sort of things are the heart and soul of the gun grabber argument.
I think we all agree that its not just crimnals that are the victims of gang violence but I don’t think making guns illegal is going to reduce gan related gun violence go down a whit. Or do you think passing some law is going to make the gangs turn in their guns?
On the plus side, you can golf drunk. On the minus side you’re basically playing fetch with yourself until you get the ball in the hole.
I’m going to assume that the 2nd Amendment as recently interpreted, as you note, is not likely to change anytime soon. I think it should change. I think someday it will have to change. I support reasonable gun-control legislation such as waiting periods, requirements for locked gun storage with separate ammo storage, background checks, and so on. However I am aware that until societal gun culture in the U.S. changes, none of this is possible.
In any case, I would certainly at least wish that the issue of suicides–which guns plainly make worse in terms of increasing the likelihood of fatal results–would be consistently part of the conversation about guns and gun control.
ETA: I am a lay but well-trained user of firearms, and started hunting in my early teens, having the most experience with shotguns and rifles. Handguns have never been my forte. I have never bought into the nonsense that firearms are necessary for family and personal protection, and I do not support the NRA as it currently functions politically.
Gang violence is a symptom.
Back to the cause/s >>
Agreed. Poverty, broken families, barriers to success- all need to be fixed. But that doesn’t preclude dealing with the immediate short-term problem- someone assaulting or robbing you on the street- with point self-defense. To propose otherwise would verge into suggesting that the middle class “deserve” to be the victims of crime and violence.
In fact, the argument could be made that gun control is a band-aid (and not a particularly effective one) over the gaping wound of our social problems.
And in other news:
Tony Blair’s daughter held up at gunpoint:
Thank god she was carrying a concealed weapon and could stand her ground. We all know that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gunis a good guy with a gun. A shootout was the best possible outcome.