So then we are back the idea that nobody can be trusted, ever.
I think this is an entirely reasonable analogy.
I am really quite relaxed about the idea that people should get a risk assessment done before they can have a swimming pool installed. You have, after all, identified this threat to innocents. It’s not exactly a hardship to wait a few days to make sure the plan’s safe. Hell, you probably need to notify your household insurers anyway just to make sure you’re covered for liability.
Do you see any issue with the above requirements for swimming pools? All seems like reasonable common sense to me.
If you trust everybody, why do you need to carry a gun?
I like the pool analogy. Anyone can have a gun, but they cost $20,000 and you have to put them in a hole in your back yard.
I don’t trust everybody and never said anyone should. However, if we are going to use the standard that nobody can ever be trusted, it will lead only to the most miserable of societies.
What about you, Jack Batty? Have you ever tortured an animal? Even if the answer is no, how can we be sure you won’t start? You like how that works? Now let’s add pre-emptive legal restrictions to it. Because you can’t be trusted not to ______________ , you can never do/own ______________. Whichever group happens to be in charge gets to fill in the blanks however they like. Sound like a society in which you want to live?
You’re all over the fucking place. Everyone should be trusted with a gun; but I, personally, *need *a gun because the world is such a scary place.
Then you continually fly off on these retarded flights of fancy about raping children and torturing animals (your diary must be a treat to read) in the classic tactic that gun-strokers apply: “Hey kids, lets talk about *anything *but guns because I don’t really have a leg to stand on if we don’t.”
You’re not fooling anyone.
Clearly, ElvisL1ves’s stupidity is rubbing off on you.
Whether you like it phrased that way or not, the ElvisL1ves position you are defending is that nobody can be trusted to own a gun because anybody could become a murderer. I am simply extending that line of thinking to other areas to show that it is a ridiculous premise on which to base law and, therefore, society. And yes, I am deliberately choosing especially distasteful hypotheticals and aiming them at you and your asshole friend specifically because he insults me and the other gun owners at this board every time he makes one of his bullshit “gun owners are…” posts. You want to lay down with that pig, don’t be shocked and angry when people tell you that you smell like shit.
The NRA takes a position on the massacre at Charleston:
[QUOTE=Charles Cotton, Board Member of the NRA]
Clementa Pinckney [pastor and victim at Charleston] is to blame for the deaths. As a state senator he had voted against a law allowing gun owners to carry concealed weapons without permits.
“Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead,” Cotton wrote. “Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue.”
[/QUOTE]
Let’s go back 8 years and look at Matthew Murray.
Now before you start gabbling that Jeanne was a former LEO, note that she could not legally have been armed in the Charleston incident and would just have been another potential victim.
Further note that cops receive only a limited amount of firearms training at the academy. About as much, actually, as required to become an armed security guard. Only large, well-funded departments mandate that officers do more than qualify annually. Jeanne Assam was not, IOW, some high speed/low drag operator.
The NRA is becoming increasingly like PETA in the WTF? nature of its public statements and policies.
The NRA is to blame for Charleston. They’re obviously not regulating their militias properly.
Considering their recent statements, there’s reason to believe the’re not regulating their medications properly.
So what realistically could have been done to prevent Dylan Roof from committing this crime? He used an ordinary semi-automatic pistol ( a .45, not even with high-capacity magazines) that he obtained illegally. To even try would take a total or near-total handgun ban like in Britain or Australia, and I suspect it would be a second Prohibition in terms of effectiveness.
ETA: and anyone who says “it would be a start” is welcome to set out to swim from Los Angeles to Hawaii and say “it’s a start” once they’re five miles out to sea.
His roommate could have ratted him out once Roof starting talking about shooting up African-American owned churches or school. South Carolina could have amended their laws to allow CCW in churches without the ‘express permission is given by the appropriate church official or governing body;’ bit. Not that allowing a CCW is a panacea—far from it—but it gives you more options than being stuck in a basement room with one way in or out, and enough time for the piece of shit to reload five times. Under the circumstances, as I understand them, the weedy fuck could have used a butcher knife, and still killed nine people.
Hanging the son of a bitch by the neck until dead, provided he is found guilty after a trial, and not publicizing anymore of this scum’s manifesto, his opinions on this season of “Game of Thrones” or whether chili should have beans in it, or anything else: all of that would be good too.
I think Senor Beef a few days ago, here, or on another subboard at the 'Dope, was really onto something about what makes these cowards, these flyspecks of barely human consciousness tick: they crave attention and they crave knowing that they matter. Because otherwise, we wouldn’t know this guy at all, and we certainly wouldn’t think him worthy of our time. Dispose of him like the filth he is, instead of reveling in headlines like, “Roof’s Manifesto Revealed,” and I think we’d have fewer of these pathetic worms, hungering for some recognition or relevance to our lives.
Actually, it was a Glock, 13 or 10-round magazines depending on state law.
Looking in from the outside -
It seems to most non 'Mercans that handguns are rather easy to get hold of - whether it be legal or illegal.
A good place to make a dent in the ease with which a handgun can be obtained may well be a proper licensing regime - along with better rules on storage.
Around here, if you knowingly allow an unlicensed driver to use your car, it is a chargeable offense - as is knowingly allowing someone to drive your car without insurance.
Is it really so difficult to apply some form of similar rules to stolen handguns if they have not been properly secured? Is it really very hard to have a requirement that stolen handguns be reported immediately (i.e within 24 hours) under pain of criminal prosecution?
Let’s face it - guns are dangerous things to have around - most other dangerous things impose ownership duties - why not guns?
Hey guys, I just wanted to tell you I still love reading this thread. I enjoy getting the viewpoints from many different perspectives. There is a great amount of pertinent information in this thread and so much of it strikes to the heart of gun ownership in the United States. But I have to tell you, and it is by far my favorite part, that nothing you say or do is going to change the fact that I can massage this sexy weapon sitting on the table next to me (makes me hard, too). I can, and will continue to be able to, put it in my backpack or my console. I’ll always be able to carry it on my person, concealed or unconcealed. I’ll be able to stick it under my seat or shove it in my glove box. Hell, I can even tote in state parks now. You anti-gun fuckers are fighting a losing battle; this I promise.
Now I know many of you will say my possession of a gun is unnecessary and, by the mere fact of possessing it, invites trouble. But I need to tell you something: the life of my wife and daughter is worth that risk. I have been trained, extensively, in the care, handling, and operation of firearms. Matter of fact, I am a state trained and certified instructor (whopee shit, I know). I am intimately aware of the destruction firearms can inflict. I have killed someone with a firearm. If I had not had that firearm, I would most certainly be dead.
I just don’t get the hatred for responsible gun ownership; maybe that’s the key part. I think maybe you’re too pussified to realize there is such a thing a responsible gun ownership. Maybe you’re too fucking sheltered to recognize the fact that it’s up to the individual to protect what’s ours. So what if some fucker wants to walk around Walmart or the swap meet with his AR-15? So what if I want to be able to defend myself pumping gas in downtown Atalanta [:)]? I guess if you lived in Portland or some shit hole like that, you wouldn’t need it. But here, in the real world, the police can’t - or won’t - always be there. I know, I was one. Sometimes you to have to rely on yourself. Sometimes a fucking Starbucks coffee or a I gave to the “Church of Religiousness Conscience” doesn’t fucking suffice. Ugh! I’d love to “drink a beer” with you nut jobs.
Including or excluding the book?
I’ll wager it will happen again, too.