It’s not very different from calling them “bad guys”, is it? Either term is a way of giving oneself permission to kill them. They don’t actually deserve rights like real humans or “good guys” do, right?
Hey. If the theater had been attacked by terrorists from ISIS or the Bundy Gang, this guy would have taken them out, saving 14 innocent lives. 14-1 is 13 last I checked. This fine American saved 13 lives; this post really belongs in the Postive Gun News thread.
In fact, call it 14 lives since the female perp didn’t even die. And yes, let’s call her a “perp” who may have needed shooting. Couldn’t she have been reaching in her purse for a nail file or something?
It’s patriots like this that keep America safe from the Jihadists; and it’s disgusting to hear you gun-grabbing libtards bad-mouth these heroes. Sure, maybe he’d had a couple of beers, but they were well-deserved – protecting the Nation from Jihad is stressful.
The story’s bizarre. He was afraid of getting shot, he said. So afraid that he chased Xanax with booze and brought a loaded firearm (with the safety off because those things are foolproof) stuffed down his pants into a movie theater that requests that patrons don’t bring their guns. How will we ever finally prove that gun free zones are slaughterhouses if people keep bringing guns?
Of course, this guy is an outlier, most CCW permit holders are responsible types like the hometown guys in my Facebook feed that I totally don’t remember abusing drugs and alcohol. They spend whole hours at the shooting range so they’re real ready to prevent a mass shooting, protect their homes, and prevent tyrants from doing tyranty type stuff, like passing a law against people on terrorist watch lists from buying all the guns they can afford.
Only after lawyers and money have failed.
Ermmm. Concerns about over-penetration are most frequently raised when you are concerned about what to use for home defense (so you don’t end up killing someone in the next room). Its one of the reasons why people use buck or bird shot for home defense. Are you saying that it is refreshing to hear gun owners be honest about using guns to defend themselves from other humans?
I didn’t realize that gun enthusiasts were downplaying the use of weapons for self defense. Weren’t shotguns endorsed by Joe Biden for home defense?
At this point you are dissecting data to find the little sliver that best supports your argument. Why do you need to dissect more granularly when you know that CCW holders are more law abiding than the general population (in Texas) more law abiding than the police? How does saying that there are ~3 mass shootings by CCW permit holders every year somehow negate the fact that CCW permit holders are more law abiding? Its not because getting the license makes you more law abiding, the fact of the matter is that the process associated with getting a CCW creates a pretty significant self selection bias.
Methinks (IIRC) these folks need to visit The Box O’ Truth.
CMC fnord!
It’s refreshing to hear gun owners be honest about wanting to mangle other humans. From the review:
Someone please help me!
I don’t have a gun, but my home has NEVER been invaded!
What should I do?
Won’t someone please HELP me?!?
I don’t write for Wonkblog and that looks like more wishful thinking to me.
Way to miss the point. You do that a lot. It’s one of the many reasons I’m a dumbass for responding.
Yeah, you have to take a class and stuff.
I know posting a link without comment is poor form, but really, nothing else to say here other than dipshit gun owner road rage.
I’m pretty sure that he was referring to the state and federal background checks that are also required.
But don’t let actual facts interfere with your snark.
Did you mean to criticize the use of birdshot because it has low stopping power or did you mean to criticize the use of buck shot because they actually do penetrate walls.
IIRC #1 birdshot has low penetration but still has stopping power at the ultra short range you would have in a home defense situation. #1 or #4 buck has more penetration and stopping power. 00 buck has too much penetration IMHO.
That’s sort of the purpose of a home defense gun. You’re not trying to tickle them.
Where did you get the impression that home defense guns were not meant to hurt the intruder? The purpose of these slugs is to hurt the intruder without inadvertently hurting people that may be on the other side of a wall.
I am not sure I see the benefit of a frangible slug over buckshot, it seems like a gimmick to me but time will tell.
Uhh, both.
First of all, you didn’t meant to use IIRC there. Secondly, did you even read the link? Bird shot does not have the stopping power required, even at a range of 6 ft if you read all the way to the bottom of the page. Any buckshot that has the required stopping power will also penetrate walls. The conclusion from that link:
This idea that there’s some “safe” home defense round is just a myth. It’s either unsafe, or it’s insufficient. There’s no magic bullet, so to speak.
Yet another reason guns suck for self defense.
Thanks, less typing for me!
CMC fnord!
I think you’re missing MY point. Segregating out that tiny little sliver of data that shows 29 mass shootings by people with CCWs over the last 10 years and presenting as evidence of the risk presented by CCW permit holders when we know that CCW holders are more law abiding that cops is a pretty silly attempt at cherrypicking.
Its more than that. Its a bit of a pain in the ass to get a CCW. Your name gets submitted to the sheriff (at least around here) and he has a few weeks to object to your permit (for cause) for objective reasons that would not bar you from purchasing a gun in this state. Its like an extra background check at the local level.
When I get pulled over and they pull up my license plate, the cops know that the registered owner of the car is a CCW permit holder. My permit was until recently a matter of public record (I think we can all remember when some newspaper thought it would be a good idea to publish the names and addresses of people with CCW permits).
That is not to say that CCW permit holders are saints but the threshold to be a permit holder is higher than the threshold to own a gun.
I meant ISTM.
Yes, and I disagree with your random internet blogger’s conclusions. I don’t think you need to blow a fist sized hole through a guy to stop him. I don’t think you need to drop a guy to stop a guy.
When these guys say they want to stop a guy they seem to mean kill him dead, no ifs ands or buts. I’m willing to risk letting the guy live in order to reduce the chance that I kill someone in the next room or the next house.
The article says that at a range of 6 feet the #4 and #1 birdshot penetrated 6 sheets of drywall while the 00 buck penetrated 7 or 8 sheets. Then later on they go on to say that birdshot only penetrated 2 sheets of drywall and got stuck in the third sheet of drywall. I can only assume he means birdshot other than #4 and #1. or the second set of tests was performed at ranges longer than 6 feet.
And once again their definition of “stopping the guy” seems to mean blowing a fist sized hole through him. There is almost no balancing done between “blowing fist sized holes in the guy” factor and “not killing your neighbor” by accident factor.
At close ranges like 6 feet, I feel pretty comfortable that #1 birdshot will cause a lot of damage. I’m also pretty comfortable that I won’t be able to shoot through my wall, through my neighbor’s wall and still have enough energy to more than scratch my neighbor.
Who said safe?
Its a tradeoff of different factors (it always is, I trade off firepower and accuracy for size, weight and maneuverability when use a handgun over a rifle, similarly I trade off one set of characteristics for another when I go with one load over another). And if guns are not for you, for whatever reason, then feel free to not have a gun. But forgive me if I don’t take your word for it that guns are not useful for self defense when I have seen them successfully used for self defense by entire communities.
Clearly you didn’t read the link very well then; the #4 and #1 loads were both buckshot.
VICE is now tracking mass shootings in the United States and Europe. The listings are updated each day, so the oldest one is at the bottom of the page.
[They talk about their methodology here:
](http://www.vice.com/read/introducing-the-vice-2016-mass-shooting-tracker)