funny how everyone at the sdmb was raised perfectly, how do you know how max is gonna turn out? its to early to see a real personality.
pldennison
I still don’t know how genetics makes it into the mix. And I thought Social Darwinism was supposed to be some justification for concentrations of wealth.
When most people, myself included, make mostly-facetious suggestions starting with, “Their oughtta be a law”, it is assumed that they are going to be the ones administering it. It’s a hypothetical. If I had the power to wave a magic wand to pass a law, I would also have the power to administer it, but I don’t have a magic wand, so it doesn’t matter.
On the subject of non-facetious suggestions of “procreation licensing”, it seems pretty obvious that the government would issue the licenses. Maybe a new bureau, maybe an old bureau with a new task, I don’t know since I’m not making the proposal. Whose morals and attitudes would the licensing laws reflect? The legislature’s, just like all other laws. I’m always surprised that this question pops up so often.
“I still don’t know how genetics makes it into the mix. And I thought Social Darwinism
was supposed to be some justification for concentrations of wealth.”
The reason people keep bring up eugenics is that it, by definition, involves preventing people from reproducing (by forced sterilization) if they don’t possess whatever physical/mental/moral attributes the eugenicist approves of. Isn’t that what you were suggesting?
If people aren’t allowed to reproduce, they don’t get to pass on their genes, n’est ce pas? That’s where genetics comes in.
Some additional bits o info on Max, for clarification:
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He is a second language learner…his father is fluent in English, but his mother speaks none. Both parents (and Max) are Spanish-speaking. I believe he is a first generation native-born; the rest of his family is from or in Mexico.
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He is from a low income family (heck, 80% of the kids at my school are). From what we ascertain, the family is on welfare. They share a house and phone with at least one other family. The father does not work and hasn’t for several years, as far as we all can tell (this via the emergency card info, as well as history). Where the heck they get the $$ to spoil Max with (he has both a Nintendo and a Sega Playstation, he tells me) is beyond me. NOT speculating there.
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Yes, it is indeed illegal to keep a child at home without medical (or other “official”) excuse. Well, kindof. A certain number of unexcused absences (5, I think) are allowed before a child is referred to SARB (Student Action Review Board), where a parent is first warned verbally and in written form, and where it can progress to court procedings should parents continue keeping their child home due to unaccepotable reasons. Of course, the parents know the magic buttons–last spring, I had a rash of students disappear for weeks at a time due to “Family Emergency.” (Some would say their grandmother died–yes, but she dies every year at this time…) Truth: they were going to Mexico for up to a month to visit family. They’d be gone so long, we’d have to drop them then re-enroll. Three of my students did that right smack in the middle of testing. (In APRIL! Can’t they wait TWO MORE MONTHS!) You can imagine how great the test scores are in my district.
Max may be a great adult person. I cannot claim to predict the future, and as a teacher, I must believe in his best potential, both intellectually and interpersonally. What’s discouraging is he is already significantly behind in both.
He did come to school today, so at least we didn’t need to fetch him. He spent the day with my super-strict fifth grade teaching pal with an armload of work he hasn’t been doing. He still didn’t finish it, but at least he didn’t go on the field trip. Argh.
FTR: I most certainly was NOT raised perfectly. In fact, my parents screwed up (and thus, screwed me up) royally. Their mistakes hurt like hell and still linger despite therapy. Max could still turn out to be a marvelous addition to society…I’m not dooming him. Not at all. But his parents are making things harder for him to learn to make right choices, and learn responsibility…there’s a battle ahead if he’s ever going to. And I hope so!
Okay, I’m just stupid then. Because I can’t figure out where forced sterilization came into it, and I still don’t really get the genetics angle. If you don’t have any children, you can’t pass on your genes or your Louisville Slugger to your children. So it really could be called euisvillesluggerics, couldn’t it?
I just think it’s a shame that all discussion topics are World War II. It doesn’t matter if you’re talking about zit cream or gun control or little ear hairs, somebody is going to give up and call somebody a Nazi. I’ve had a dozen versions of this discussion before, and I always come away feeling just a little bit soiled, just like when the big kids on the playground used to box my ears and mock the way I walked. My mom told me the big kids did it just because they were scared inside and teasing people made them feel better.
Yes, they are stupid.
Poor Max…he’s going to have a hell of a rude awakening one day.
Boris B laments:
After some little thought, I’ve decided that if those making this accusation (obviously not Boris, although he’s welcome to chime in) would like to meet me in either Great Debates or the Pit, I’d be happy to take them on in either venue. However, I believe that I have pushed the outer limits of the MPSIMS envelope.
“Kings die, and leave their crowns to their sons. Shmuel HaKatan took all the treasures in the world, and went away.”
My mom is a sixth grade teacher, and this is the #1 topic of conversation every time I go home.
My personal favorite is a hellion she had a few years ago; Mom had his mother come in for a conference with her and the principal. Mom discussed how the kid had been acting up, and the woman’s reply was, “Who are you to judge my child?”
The biggest problem is that such parents are catered to by principals and school boards who fear lawsuits. For instance, one kid Mom had a few years ago is a clear mental case–a definite danger to himself and especially to others. The school has never been able to do anything about it, though, because his mother has them under the constant threat of a lawsuit if they “deny him the right to his education”. For several years (and maybe still, he is in high school) the school had to hire a special educator/bouncer just for this kid. Whenever they meet with his mother and tell her about his problems, her (verbatim) response is, “What in the hell do you expect me to do about it?”
Idiot parent stories? I got a million of 'em.
Dr. J
DocJ–that sounds like a kid we had at our school last year (he was transferred, thank God). This 4th (that’s 9 turning 10!) grader had severe emotional/anger problems. He’d been kicked out of several schools, but his parents got a court order that forced us to take him at a public school, instead of the more controlled environment he requires. It’s that whole right to an education, mainstreaming, et al argument (which is valid in most cases, but NOT this one!). :::Image of parents covering ears and screaming, "My child is normal! My child is normal!:::
As an example of the level of this kid’s derangement, one day last year he told his teacher 1)where his father’s gun was kept, 2)he was going to bring his father’s gun to school tomorrow, 3) he was going to need 16 bullets, and 4) he was putting 4 bullets in this kid, two in that one, etc., but he wasn’t going to shoot any of the girls. (He didn’t say whether or not he’d shoot the teacher.)
We acted on that one and made immediate parent contact, as well as various psych profiles. It just SUCKS that his parents are forcing us to take such a monster. Even though he’s not at our school, he’s still at another public elementary school in my district.
You have got to love the system. And stupid, STUPID parents. Oh, wait, no you don’t.
So did the parents hide the gun, or take him to the shooting range?
So how many of you wish that your folks were like Max’s, eh? All of ya, I bet. 
I am all for the parenting classes and subsequent liscensing and take it one step farther. I propose to make myself ( and a host of others) the Head of the Ovulation and Insemination Committee.
No one can ovulate or inseminate (the mandatory vasectomies for boys and depo provero for girls) until they can pass a rigid and rigorous verbal test administered by many professionals: teachers, ob/gyns, pediatricians, other parents, and the prospective parents own parents and family.
If they cannot prove there is a light behind their eyes, they have to wait three years and attend classes and work shops.If they fail a second time, too bad.
My Ob/GYN & pediatrician want to be on this committee.
Laura Rae:
I know what you’re talking about. When my kid went into the Severe Behavior Handicap program a couple of years ago, they gave us a parent packet of literature. The whole thrust of the material was along the lines of “We know that your child is a wonderful person, but some children have issues that need to be addressed so that they can learn.”
Well, gee. The reason we’re putting him in this program is because he has been getting violent in the classroom. Of course, he has issues.
But, I guess that the folks that run these programs usually encounter defensive parents who can’t accept that their kids have “issues.”
Ironically, there is already a growing backlash against the whole “mainstreaming” concept. The original idea that you should not take troubled or disabled kids and hide them away with no contact with the whole world was good. Unfortunately, too many TV movies gave some people the idea that “every kid should be with all the other kids all the time.” Well, my kid can’t and I want him in a program to learn to control his temper and prepare him for college and life, not running around the room screaming–and then being ostracized by all the kids on the playground because he is wierd.
It is somewhat analogous to the issues with life-support systems. Some people can recognize when it is OK to pull the plug because there is no person left in the body that the machines are running. Other people feel that as long as the body has not started to decay, let the machines keep running because anything else is “murder.”
Tom~