Purpose: Create consciousness that you must pass certain exams before you are qualified to be a parent. The qualification process would insure that a potential parent fully understands ALL responsibilities and parental care required to bring and raise a healthy, psychologically balanced and educated child into this world. Violators will be subject to similar punishments as drivers without a valid driver’s license.
So what is a “psychologically balanced and educated child into this world” exactly?
Can I have a defintion? An example? Than discussion and continue further
I’ll tell you what… find a way for sperm cells and egg cells to abide by these licenses, then we’ll talk.
(Answering in anticipation that this would be moved to GD or IMHO)
I’m sure that the idea of subjecting people to DMV type bureaucracy in order to simply procreate is going to go over real well.
How about before proposing serious intrusions into people’s very personal affairs, you demonstrate conclusively that this is a good idea. I want to see studies showing the damage done to society by parents who would be excluded. I want to see what the standards are going to be exactly and how they will be carried out. I want to see studies showing conclusively exactly how this will work.
Unless and until you can provide an incredibly large amount of data supporting this idea, I don’t think it is even worth debating.
I hope Tuba doesn’t think I’m stepping on her toes, but given that I’m awake at the unGodly hour of ten in the morning on a Saturday, I’ll take the initiative and toss this over to GD.
David, Gaudere, have fun.
What a great yet un-enforceable idea. Right now we are stuck with performing damage control by removing children from homes where the parent’s would not have passed any test.
I can see a lot of fines being handed out if this ever came to pass and most if not all so called good parents would end up paying a fine in their lifetime.
It is a good question but I agree with pepper, we need some criteria on which to base any subsequent arguements.
So, who’s going to decide the standards of parenting?
The way I’m raising my children would probably looked upon as “wrong” by a large percentage of the population.
Would children be required to… [ul]
[li]go to church/synagogue etc?[/li][li]believe homosexuality is wrong?[/li][li]not question authority?[/li][li]be seen & not heard?[/li][li]and so on…[/li][/ul]
My idea of “psychologically balanced,” “educated” and “healthy” may not be the same as yours.
How do you propose a nation such as this comes to a concencus on what good parenting is?
Seems to me even if we could decide what the requirements for licensing would be, the bigger problem would be enforcement. Licensing drivers and barbers is one thing–if they are denied the license, the cannot participate in the regulated activity. However, if you want to license parents, you have two very unsavory choices. You can significantly violate people’s personal freedom by compelling them to use birth control. The most reliable way to do this would be to force all women to get hormonal implants–they work for years and after implantation, and can be removed if the woman is ready to get pregnant. However, it’s still an invasive medical procedure–something the government would be reluctant to compell on a large scale, and rightly so! Or you can simply take babies away from unlicensed parents. This will be very traumatic for the parents and the community, and will cause a great deal of anti-government sentiment. It also creates a burden on the state–the children will have to be cared for or placed with foster parents until their birth parents get a license (if ever.)
Don’t you think it’s a much better idea for the government to provide voluntary education for parents, and expand programs like Head Start to help people raise healthy well-adjusted kids?
Following are 3 possible examples of exam questions for potential parents:
1- Give your fanancial plan with back-up alternatives (say if the father (if any) dies in a year). Exactly how you are going to raise the kid from birth date all the way to his/her college or trade school graduation. how much is it going to cost? and where are the funds are going to come from?
2- Give your plan on exactly what steps you are going to take so that your child does not end up being a gang member or go behind bars – a burden to the rest of the society.
3- Using the current genome data bank, furnish evidence that there is a better than 90% chance that the child will be genetically healthy.
As for enforcement of the laws (to be carefully written based on democratic principles), the Chinese experiment (limiting couples to one child) is a start, alebeit a poor example, as China is not a democracy.
The premise in starting this debate was that we all start thinking about what it would take for human beings to evolve into a more healthy and harmonious (civilized?) societies as we forge forward into the future.
If there was a license required to have kids, I wouldn’t be here!
None of us would be here, xanadu.
Except the rich families who live on the good side of town, with children who have never wanted for anything, or worked for anything, ever. You know the children, the ones that aren’t responsible because Daddy has always been there to bail them out of jams. The ones who don’t know how to keep a house, because they always had a maid, or raise children of their own, because their mothers hired nannies.
(Not that there’s anything wrong with that)
In my state, unlicensed driver’s get 10 days in jail, (suspended if they perform 80 hours community service). That means the unlicensed children would be wards of the state for two weeks, or live in a household with no income for the same period.
One Cell, left field is calling, they want their idea back.
Okay, assuming that everybody thinks that a parenting license is a bad idea, how about a free parenting class offered to all prospective mothers and fathers? Kind of a Home Economics meets Personal Finance crossed with Developmental Psychology? I know a lot of parents who could use it. You could even offer some kind of incentive for those who complete the course, like a tax break.
–Caliban
What if the father dies? Well, I assume the mother can step out of the kitchen and find a job. Be sure to tell her to put her shoes on first. But have her mind her tone, them womenfolk scare the me.
Oh, and child support is for 18 years, not until college graduation.
I plan to love my child and be kind to him or her. Crime is bad. I’ll tell the child to take a bite out of it.
Is this the wrong answer? Who decides if it is? Did you want an essay, or is three sentences enough to have some govenment worker stamp an “ok” on this. BTW, where are these government workers coming from? Who trains them? Who pays them? Oh yeah…us. Talk about a burden to society.
Wow…genetic testing for every baby. That’ll be quite cheap. Good suggestion. Anyway, we even determine right now that there is a 90% chance of being healthy genetically? Is that technologically possible. And if it is, well then…is anyone 90% likely to be healthy? Cancer, heart problems, diabetes. Hell, I have asthma, my parents should have aborted me!
And using the same system of punishment for driving without a license as with not having a birth license? Great googly moogly! I’m actually laughing at that one. Just because they’re both licenses doesn’t mean they’re the same thing. One Cell, does that SN refer to what’s floating around your brain?
[sub]sigh…I know. I’m a bastard.[/sub]
Which, of course, is exactly how drivers licenses are given out, only the rich white folk get them. :rolleyes:
If we want to license gunowners, we sure should license childbearing- a bad parent can do more damage than a nut with gun any day- as they can raise a whole family of nuts with guns.
The idea is impractical- but how about this- no tax deduction if you don’t have a permit? No welfare, or other aid, either. Free birth control implants- on request. Free reversable sterilization for men.
Sure, it is open to abuses- but so were voting “literacy tests”. If the test is colorblind, etc- it could work- on a limited basis- especially if there was no penalty- just lack of awards.
What’s on this test again? Who do I have to prove my worthiness to? Whose standard of child rearing do I have to live up to in order to get my tax deduction?
Are you trying to tell me that children born with genetic disabilites should not be born at all? That poor people should not have children? What is the acceptable income level?
Are these tests going to be administered at the local Department of Parental Consent office? Will the test be multiple choice or essay?
The three things One Cell wants to test for (Financial readiness, parental disciplinary proceedures and future health of the child) are unquantifiable, unforseeable and do not foretell whether or not a person would be a good parent.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden *
**
So we’re OK with the children of bad parents starving to death? or not getting medical treatment.
Admit it, this is more complicated that gun or car permits.
do a search and find all the threads where people here debated spanking.
just spanking. and there wasn’t a consensus (except “child abuse is wrong”).
and a word about Parenting classes. The folks I’ve personally known who thought they would benefit from parenting classes were terrific parents (IMHO).
When we operated the correction center, one of our intake forms had the question “What has given you a feeling of satisfaction” and most answered something about their relationship with their kids.
Now, this INCLUDED the woman who believed she was a good mom 'cause she always made sure she put breakfast out for her kids before she went out to cop her fix.
It also included the woman who believed that the proof of her excellent mothering techniques came from her 6 year old who would get himself up and ready for school everyday (dressed, homework, breakfast, packed lunch) since she’d been up partying the night before.
It also included the woman who wouldn’t pay utility bills until they were disconnect notices, and then would take her kids bikes, Nintendo etc to pawn to pay for the items.
It also included the woman who had her 4 kids break into houses & steal to support them…
get the picture?
First question: what would happen if this plan were implemented?
I’m not going to give away my right to have children for a plan that just sounds like it will do something. I want good, reliable indicators of how much this will benefit society. Will promising young astrophysicists have to work at McDonalds because of of a complete lack of people who aren’t overqualified? What are the side effects going to be? Are they worth it?
Second question: how can anyone claim to be pro-choice and yet support this plan?
At the center of the abortion debate is the question of whether the government can legislate reproductive rights away. Most people are of the opinion that a woman’s reproductive rights are her business alone. Why would they even consider this plan?
Third question: since children of privileged, healthy, intelligent parents are so much better, would Bush and Gore simply be exceptions, or do you really think either of them are the type of people we need more of in our society?
I listen to a radio talk show host who has been saying for years that there should be some way to require people get a license before being allowed to have children. He says you need a license to drive a car, to fish, to hunt, to own a business and so on, but every moron around has the right to pop out kids by the dozen, unregulated.
He and his side kick had just finished a week of young men and women calling in and talking about something which I can’t recall, but it seemed so many were unmarried, too young and had too many kids by several different partners.
Reasons given:
He told me he was sterile. (HA!)
I just wanted a baby soooo bad. I didn’t know they are so much trouble.
I didn’t think I’d get pregnant.
A man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do.
I always wanted kids. (This from a 22 year old male, with 4 kids under the age of 3, from 4 different women under the age of 21, and who works as a burger flipper and 'gives ‘em some cash when he can.’)
I hate rubbers. (From another brilliant guy.)
Didn’t think about it. (From one more fellow.)
He didn’t believe in birth control. (16 year old girl here).
We need strong warriors to fight the oppressive (insert race here) with. (This from a minority male of 23.)
Never cared much for rubbers and I didn’t ask if she was on the pill. (Another rocket scientist here.)
He said he’d marry me! (18 year old genius here – with 3 kids by two guys, none of whom is around).
So, while impossible to enforce, the concept of requiring people to take a parenting test and get certified before popping out rug rats is not a bad idea. I’ve found far too many guys who brag about their many kids, and not a one of them is married and not one holds a job that pays enough for them to contribute child support.
One of the better ones was; ‘I luved him an’ he wanted a son but all I had wuz a girl, so we tried and I had ‘nother girl an’ we tried again and I got him a son.’
Talk show host, trying not to reach through the phone and smack her: ‘So, where is the fertile father now?’
‘I dunno. He left me after junior wuz born. Sez I was too busy to have fun wit anymore so he takes off.’
Talk show host, smacking head against wall: ‘Is he paying child support?’
‘Hell no! The SOB had plenty of money for beer and dope but all he ever come up wit wuz some cash for diapers and formula now and then.’
Talk show host: ‘So, we’re paying for you spreading your legs, right?’
‘Hell, you aint payin’ for nothing. The welfare is!’
Talk show host: ‘I rest my case.’