Subaru Owners...Do You Love Your Subaru?

My 03 Legacy Outback is at 160,000. I had the head gasket completely, uh, zhuzhed, a few years ago, and the traveling Subaru specialist who did it assured me we’d see 300.

The worst thing about my Subaru is the local dealership. When I was looking to buy I visited and was completely turned off by the staff attitude. They spoke rudely to me. I bought elsewhere, obviously. Ten years later, I had to take it back for the airbag recall, and they were still jerks. I patronise independent repair shops.

They’re great cars, but I didn’t really consider getting one as every 6th car around here is a Forester or Outback or Crosstrek and color options are limited. So finding your car in a crowded lot must suck.

Family members in Oregon have had 3 or 4. One replaced a Prius. Yes, Oregon stereotypes.

After being die-hard Toyota buyers for 30 years, we got our used 2002 Subaru (six cylinder AWD Outback) in 2005. Thirteen years later it’s still the best car we’ve ever owned. No significant mechanical problems, and a joy to drive.

Why would there be any battery acid discharge unless the voltage regulator failed and the car is cooking its own battery?

Asking for a friend as they recently replaced a 2003 Forester with a 2005 Forester. The older one died violently when we were eyeballing it to hopefully find where coolant had been disappearing to. It had 220,000 miles, and the newer one has 170,000. Battery is two months old, so there shouldn’t be any chia pets under the hood. The old battery was pretty clean - just six years old and dead.

You know that car that’s always driving 5 m/hr under the speed limit in the left lane with a pack of angry cars behind? Well, if you live around Portland Oregon, eight times out of ten it’s a Subaru. That’s the reason that when I went shopping for a new car 5 years ago I refused to even look at Subarus. People who do own them however, seem to love them. I just can’t.

I am on my second Forester. I love my car, I’ve gone up steeps hills through snow 8 inches deep with regular all-weather tires with no problems whatsoever with both this one and the previous one. I’ve moved with it, carried tons of stuff. I love it more than the 1960’s Volkswagen Beetle I inherited from my older brother when I was 18. As long as I drive through snow and ice on hills, I will always have a Subaru. Other Subaru owners I know feel the same way. The car has earned the loyalty it inspires.

My two sons and I are a Subaru family. We all have Subaru XVs (Crosstreks) and are very happy with them. One son got his in 2016. My other son and I bought our’s last year. Yes, we copied him. He did extensive test driving and research before buying his and was very happy with it so that was good enough for us.

I worked with a guy who would never buy a different brand of car. He loved Subaru. He was also the most tight fisted guy I ever knew so if he liked a vehicle brand with that much passion, you would have to bet it was good value for money.

A friend who has been in a same-sex relationship as long as we’ve known her always says straight people like us don’t need the written approval of three lesbians to buy an Outback. :slight_smile: (We do have an Outback BTW)

From what I have been told the Forester has always been the slightly more off-road ready model and the Outback the more city version. It isn’t so much which was the bigger as where each was bigger and how that fit into the use. My dealer usually puts it as a “country cousin” type of thing.
As for the 19 cup holders; fascinating. Don’t know how it plays into the real world but I guess its better to be known for something rather than not.

'05 Outback owner with 312,000 on the odometer it is now de-registered and sitting in the driveway. It was in many ways a great car, very fun to drive (a driver’s car), and also ‘go anywhere’, excellent drive system, and all and all easy repairs, it really earned the loyalty you have seen. What I didn’t like was 1: check engine light (for anything) disabled the cruse control, Head gasket problem - really it is still a issue and really this should have been fixed by now, and when oil leaked, which is common, it dripped onto the exhaust which stunk as it burned, seats were not all that comfy. I was also tired to see all the oil under the car.

The vast majority of these responses are the same types of things I tell my customers. The “culture” surrounding the Subaru brand nearly resembles a “cult” following.

And again, I have never seen a brand of car that encompasses so many “types” of people. The lesbian with four dogs. the man-bun guy with two kayaks atop it (Thule cross rails, of course), older folks whom have owned several and would never consider another brand, young guys that like the WRX and STI sports cars…it goes on and on.

Which brings me to their new model. the Ascent. It’s a 7 or 8 seat SUV, powered by a 260hp turbo four (with 277 ft/lbs of torque). We can’t keep them in stock. Unlike their previous foray into this segment (the woeful and expensive Tribeca), they stuck to what works. It looks like an Outback on steroids, comes standard with their Eyesight suite of safety technology (which works perfectly and is really cool), tows 5,000 lbs with the factory tow package, has a load of great features and…undercuts the similarly equipped competition in the mid-sized SUV market by 10 grand.

TEN GRAND! I used to sell Buicks and GMC’s, and their respective entries into this segment, the Enclave and Acadia, are significantly more expensive to buy, put gas in, and to maintain.

A Denali Acadia is 60 thousand dollars, which is a lot for a unibody, large-ish SUV with more bling than substance. The Enclave is the same in Avenir trim. A fully optioned out Touring Ascent just kisses 50 thousand, and gets better MPG’s, has a true AWD system, is safer and holds it’s value better.

Part of all this is why GM rebate money is monopoly money. Their cars are so marked up to begin with and they depreciate so fast that you’re almost never getting “a good deal” on one because it loses up to 25% of it’s value in that critical first year. Subarus are not marked up much at all by comparison.

Let me share a couple things. First, my pay plan. I get paid 20% commission on front end gross profit. So if I sell you an Outback at sticker, say $38k, there’s “only” about $2500 front end gross on that. So 20% of $2500 is $500. Not bad, right? Well, considering that nobody pays sticker, there’s an internet price, and people always want more off, we sell most of our cars at invoice or below. If the deal loses money (aka a “mini deal”). I get paid $100. And I just spent six hours with you between selection, test driving, negotiation, signing paperwork, detailing and delivery. That works out to about $16.60 an hour. And I don’t sell a car every day. Sure, there are other avenues of income. like “Subaru Money”, selling Starlink subscriptions, accessories, etc…but Subaru money is typically $50 per car and my commission on Starlink and accessories is only 10%.

I’m not asking anyone to feel sorry for me as we all choose what we do for a living. But damn it can be tough. So the next time you feel guarded around what seems like an aggressive salesperson, be advised that they are trying to size you up to see what, if any, kind of buyer you are.

Anyhoo, the second fact I found interesting is that the average duration of ownership of Subaru vehicles is roughly twice that of other brands, at 7.2 years, versus 3-4 years for all other cars.

As a result, Subaru’s market penetration on leasing is LOW. As of 2014, 25% of all new vehicle sales in the North American market were leases. Subaru only leased about 12% of their new vehicle sales in that same model year, this despite the fact that Subaru sold 800,000 cars in that year in the NA market, AND that they lease out well payment-wise due to their high residual values (the projected worth of the car 3 years into the future). With a high residual. you’re financing LESS of the cost of the vehicle during a lease compared to other brands.

But Subaru owners don’t care. They’re in it for the long haul.

A disclaimer: I did not intend for this to be a “woe is me” car salesman thread, rather, to demonstrate how and why Subaru cars are what they are. It’s WAAAAAAY more than perception, they really are rugged, do anything, go anywhere in any weather, super safe, etc vehicles.

It’s crazy. And Roderick Femm, I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that you’re only getting 20-21 MPG in an Impreza. It’s Subaru’s least expensive car that gets the best mileage. Perhaps there’s something wrong with it?

The Forester is a small SUV, taller and shorter (front to rear) than the Outback. The Outback is a station wagon, shorter (top to bottom) and longer than the Forester.

That’s just what I’ve read on the web about the few Subaru models that have suffered from this issue.
I have no idea WHY these articles are written the way that they are, I just know that they tend to list this as part of the overall issue, due to proximity/location of these systems under the hood.

C’mon, that’s still some old guy with his blinkers on while driving 45mph in the right lane…in a Crown Victoria.

:slight_smile:

This demonstrates exactly what I am referring to.

The largest differences AFAICT between the Forester and Outback are appearance, driving position, outward visibility, engine choices, towing capability and interior cargo volume. The Forester sits taller than the Outback and ride height reflects that. They both have the same amount of ground clearance (8.9"), but the Forester has a larger “greenhouse” (bigger windows) than the Outback.

The Forester has a more “wagon-y” appearance than the Outback, although they both look more like wagons than SUV’s to me, and they are both deemed “crossovers” by the automotive press.

The Forester also has only one engine choice, a 2.5L normally aspirated 4cyl now rated at 181hp (no turbo anymore, like on the outgoing XT model) and the Outback can be had with that OR the 3.6L 6 cylinder in the R model (which affords it 3500lbs towing capacity). The Forester has been completely redone for 2019 which is why we haven’t seen any yet at our dealership and I am eager to check them out. There’s some definite changes (Eyesight now standard, facial recognition technology available in some models for memory seats, climate control and drowsy driver identification, amongst other shit), but by and large will not outwardly change much. Subaru, being Japanese, is a conservative company).

And despite the fact that the Forester sits taller than the Outback, the O-back actually has more interior cargo volume (not by much), so there is that as well. Jeez, I feel like I’m teaching a class!

Check engine lights disable MANY functions on ALL cars. And the head gasket thing is pretty much resolved, and has been for awhile now. Shit, you got over 300k miles out of it.

Nothing like Saturn had going on; we could debate the point but I would say it isn’t even close. We’re not even into that sort of thing but we attended several yearly “gatherings” around the region and even considered the Home-coming once. Saturn, especially when it was the fully different no-haggle car company, really did get to cult status and the cars were cheap enough (compared to say a Subaru) and great enough that it was almost understandable.

One good memory from a gathering they had at an amusement park; they had put down an assortment of doors for kids and adults to walk on, jump on and abuse showing the dent-resistant nature of the design. All day kids were basically going jungle-gym-nuts over these things as a couple salesmen watched for safety and finally ----- one did break. The kid and his parents looked like “uh-oh - this is not going to be good” but the reaction from the dealer staff was one of pure joy. They hit the family with a load of swag, took pictures of them holding the door and turned it into a celebration. They treated it as a mark of honor that of all the gatherings they knew of that summer, theirs was the first to actually manage to break one. :smack:

I’ll be honest — if Saturn was still around and operating as they were in say 1999 I would still be in their family. I only left because even simple parts for my Vue became tough to find.
PS ---- it looks like you started to reply about the emergency brake thing but it got lost. So why the button and what good is it really?

Ah yes, that. Well, you can’t do e-brake turns anymore!

:slight_smile:

I’m not super familiar with the processes that involve either type of braking system, but I think the main difference is that on a traditional hand brake that it’s connected to cables that engage the rear brakes, whereas the electronic e-brake is a switch that is pushed or pulled and that engages little motors on all four wheels that apply the disc brakes to each wheel.

I think that’s correct, so in theory the electronic brake should be better (safer) although I imagine that it’s another part that needs checked or that can fail and that the mechanical lever system is probably more robust than the new one replacing it.

We’re on our second Outback. We sold our first after 13 years to our neighbor for his son who was off to college. We still see it on the street when he’s back for holidays, and it feels a little like our grown-up kid is back for a visit after exploring the world. It still runs great for him.

Sure, but 8 of the 10 cars trying to pass that slow one are also Subarus. They really are everywhere here.

On a side note, here’s a fascinating article from a couple of years ago about Subaru’s marketing strategy and how they became known as the car for lesbians. I was completely oblivious to the subtle advertising in the early days of the campaign:

Hi FGIE,
Subarus are great cars, but nothing is without fault or praise.

Cons

  • Boxer engines consume oil, are prone to head gasket failure and are unforgiving if not maintained (especially when older). A simple, easily verified truth - just check with Porsche or Volkswagen.
  • On the whole Subaru lags behind other manufacturers in ‘entertainment technology’ since they tend to prioritize known-and-proven over new-and-flashy.
  • Vehicles are generally available in a tiers with little to no cross-customization.
  • Dealerships are quite widespread outside of snow zones.

Pros

  • Properly maintained Subarus rival Toyotas for length of life
  • Subaru was the first automotive manufacturer to actively solicit and support homosexual customers
  • Outside the regions that require winter tires, PERSONAL ANECDOTE Subarus are the most surefooted vehicle for daily driving
  • CVT is a boon to most drivers in the US
  • Subaru customer loyalty means something good. Whilst buyers might be loyal to F or C trucks, Deutsch sedans, et al – Subaru has one of the few lasting BRAND followings.

Good cars.

Our '86 GL refuses to die, despite being abused daily by a teenager who seems convinced it is a racecar. I’ve said here before I have never owned a better snow car. The BRZ is a dream sports car, but I was disappointed they couldn’t find a way to give it a touch more power and all wheel drive. The '16 WRX is an overpowered cow.

Whoever is in charge of Subaru’s voice recognition and Bluetooth software needs to be pilloried in the public square and forbidden from ever working in electronics design for the rest of his life. It is beyond bad. The voice recognition fails whether you speak to it in English or Japanese (I mean, what it hears is not even close to what you’ve said), and the Bluetooth, when it remembers how to synch with your device, takes far too long to connect. It’s a 2 mile drive to my grocery store through a 40 mph traffic zone. It wouldn’t connect until I was nearly there. You get so used to it taking forever that you sometimes don’t realize it isn’t connecting at all.

07 Legacy Wagon owner with 13500 km on the clock since new. The head gasket issue on the 2.5 normally aspirated engine is more about lousy design than battery induced corrosion FWIW. I know because I’ve had them replaced. The turbos used a better gasket material and they have significantly less issues. Other than this, Dagmar has been the best car I think I’ve owned as it has demanded very little from me mechanically and with good winter tires is fantastic on crappy Canadian winter road conditions. My next car will likely be a Subaru as well but since they stopped making the Leg wagon (and I don’ty like appearance of the Outbacks), it’'ll probably be a CrossTrek or a BRZ since they won’t/aren’t making a WRX hatch. Twits.

I agree with the notion that nothing is without fault. I do not agree that “all” boxer engines are prone to gasket failure…that’s an identified issue on the 2.5 motor, which has already been addressed and was identified as a lousy gasket material as well as battery leakage (the former being the most prominent cause, with the latter exacerbating it). I also agree with Subaru lagging behind on infotainment systems, and your reasoning why. Their R&D money on safety construction/technology and AWD systems was money well spent. Subaru sold about 840,000 cars in the North American market last year (up 8% when the rest of the industry had a down year), proving at least to me that Subaru customers valued those things more than entertainment technology. Meanwhile, I must address the post below…

I heartily agree that Subaru’s voice recognition and bluetooth technology is waaaaay behind the curve. Voice recognition rarely works well and is frustrating to use.

I don’t agree that the WRX is “overpowered” (only 268hp, were you talking about the STI at 305hp?) or a “cow” as the WRX handles well enough. The major issues I have with the WRX and STI are turbo lag (for days…then an unexpected WHOOSH of power) and the very narrow clutch engagement window, making the manual hard to drive and more like work than fun.

No Subaru car handles as well as the BRZ…few cars from any manufacturer do. I do agree that only 200hp is a bit limp-wristed for the car…it needs the WRX engine in it, if they were to address the turbo lag. All wheel drive would be cool, but might ruin the balanced handling dynamics and fun tossability of a rear drive sports car.

Be advised that the BRZ is the only Subaru car (well, it’s really more of a Toyota car with a Subie engine) that is rear drive and not all wheel drive. It’s also the only Subaru car that comes with a normal (not CVT) transmission when equipped with the automatic. Just FYI.