Cow in that…we have different ideas about what “well enough” means. But maybe it’s just me: I’d gotten used to the Jedi-like handling of the BRZ when I hopped in my wife’s WRX which 1) had a gob more power…eventually, when the turbo decided you were hard enough into a curve to kick on, 2) steered like a cow in comparison. Curbed the damned thing before it had 200 miles on the odometer. I got in trouble for that.
Nah, it’s got Toyota stamped on the engine as well. But it IS a boxer. But the badges say Subaru. Admit it, it’s effectively a supremely-balanced, underpowered RWD 2-seater. It’s an MR2 with the motor in the wrong place.
Im always baffled by the resale value on these. Granted Im only interested in the sti but they are prone to ringland failure, horrible ride comfort, poor amenities and soundproofing. I will admit the visibility used to be great but all Japanese cars were before the restrictions were put on the c-pillar which makes cars safer but imo more prone to crashing.
I often think subaru owners are on crack asking $12-17,000 for a cheap jap car with 125k miles. Especially when there is so many better cars in the segment.
The peanut eye 04-05 model is the only looker, bugeye and hawkeye are in poor taste.
Oh, I’m well aware of the BRZ’s configuration and if I bought one it would NOT have an automatic in it! Had SWMBO not had some say in my car purchase in 2007 it would have been a 5 speed GT wagon and not an auto SE! Ironically, although I don’t much like the Outback I really like the look of the lifted CrossTrek. I do believe Subaru is losing some sales by not offering a turbo option across the board for the entire line-up, though. The XT Forester was a blast to test drive in 07!
Osano, what other AWD 4 cylinder would you recommend over a typical Subaru? Wouldn’t market forces drive what you can get from a used car?
I can see what you mean about the handling differences between the WRX and the BRZ. And it isn’t about skidpad numbers either. The WRX pulls 0.91 g’s on the pad, the BRZ 0.90, a negligible difference…but that’s with the BRZ rolling on comically underwhelming Michelin Primacy rubber. If you put a set of Pilot Sport 4’s on there it’s about 1.0g (and braking distance decreases a lot as well).
It’s also the fact that the WRX is an unrefined blunt instrument, whereas the BRZ is a scalpel in the twisties. Plus without the AWD intervening, the BRZ can be tail happy in a fun and good way. Can’t do that in the WRX.
The steering rack in the BRZ is a better unit than the WRX’s too. And it has a much lower center of gravity. It’s all around a better driver’s car, they just need to turbocharge it already. Give it 300hp and it’ll be a nonstop grin machine.
Why would you be baffled by the resale value? Despite some cheap materials in some of the cars, it’s stout where it counts and the brand has well documented longevity and low cost of ownership. I agree that in general Subarus have bland styling, but the manufacturer and customers don’t seem to care and sales numbers reflect that. I think they are the only car company that has shown growth year over year over the course of the last decade.
Plus, they are an environmentally friendly brand. Their Lafayette Indiana plant is a zero landfill facility. They recycle EVERYTHING. They sponsor lots of cool programs for animal rights, children’s literacy, preserving wildlife, children’s hunger and so forth. I would rather give my money to a more socially responsible company like them than a company that’s more about greed and the here and now.
Plus, it’s kinda the same thing with resale on Subarus as on Jeep Wranglers. Why are Wranglers so expensive as used cars? Because they’re cool? They’re inefficient, loud, rollover prone, uncomfortable, crude and not great daily drivers. But again…built like a tank for the long haul…like Subarus. I am sure perception plays a role, but the numbers don’t like with Subaru…duration of ownership being double that of most other cars, low maintenance costs compared to others, projected longevity, etc.
Yeah, the lifted Crosstreks are cool. The entire Impreza line needs an upgraded motor however (the Crosstrek shares motor, powertrain and chassis with the Imprezas) as the current engine is pretty wheezy, although it returns good fuel economy for an AWD car.
The WRX and STI line are long overdue for improvement and upgrades. The ride’s too stiff for a daily driver and the gains in handling for such a beat you up chassis configuration aren’t enough to overcome the discomfort. The engines are incredibly laggy and are now “underpowered” by the standards of their competition, the infotainment systems suck, etc.
Hmm, this is an encouraging thread. I’m planning on buying a small SUV soon, and I’ve pretty much narrowed the field to the Forester or the Honda CR-V.
I have had 4 Subarus so far, and yeah, I guess I did love them, but not equally. The one I miss the most is the Brat, (yes, I bought it used, from a lesbian ) which really was the ideal car for me, and (along with the GL) was unstoppable in snow.
When a blizzard would dump a few feet at a time, there were only two vehicles that could routinely park on the top of the hill at my apartment building: my Subaru and the Monster Truck Guy’s PlowMonster. Everybody else had a long, treacherous walk up that snowy hill. Too bad they didn’t buy Subarus instead of garden-variety SUVs.
The only work I ever did to any of those cars, apart from normal maintenance, was to replace a broken clutch cable on the Brat, and even then I was able to drive it to the shop.
I mentioned in another thread that my wife and I have had Subaru vehicles continuously since '81.
Three Legacy wagons, a Legacy sedan, and the latest were/are Foresters. None have required other than routine maintenance.
They are not our only vehicles, but they are our choice when there’s snow or other bad weather. The ride on the Forester is a little choppy, But we plan to buy another this winter or next spring.
I had a 94 legacy wagon that I bought in 97 and it was a great car. Cheap, reliable, and relatively fun to drive. It was pretty gutless, but other wise I never had a problem with it. I drove it for ~8 years, got it just over 200 k miles and then traded it in for a brand new 2005 Outback. This thing was a piece of shit. The first year I owned it I drove a rental more than I drove it (the dealership did pay for the rental car) as it had this intermittent problem where it would just die and not restart for ~15 minutes. Really sucked when you were on the freeway in rush hour traffic. They replaced half the car but it tuned out to be some kind of grounding problem with the computer and when they replaced this, the problem went away.
I drove that car for almost 10 years and put about 160 k miles on it before I sold it for $8 k. It did OK, I guess. And if you put a set of snow tires on it, there was nowhere I couldn’t go. Still though, I hated that car by the end. The transmission was shot. The head gaskets went at about 100k and took the catalytic converter with them. The brakes sucked. The suspension was not all that. Looking back on it now, I would have to say it was a pretty great car all in all, maybe not built to the best quality standards, but a good car to own and drive.
I may buy another Subaru again for my children, but I doubt I will buy one for myself.
I would buy a 325xi if I was on a budget and needed awd you could get one for under 7grand easily and have money for repairs if needed. Also it’s rumored the civic type r is coming out in a AWD configurations soon. Motortrend had a hot hatch lineup in the july issue and the wrx got last place.
Your jeep example reminds me of harley davidson. The reason they are so loud is that they are horribly inefficient and unbalanced. But fools will still buy them and pay 30k.
Now Im not putting subaru in the same boat as jeep or harley but the cultish following is the same. I do appreciate that subaru is one of the few companies who hasn’t abandoned the manual transmission. I used to be big into the Japanese car scene but always found Honda/acura to have alot more bang for your buck. After much deliberation I bought 330 zhp this year and once you go german you dont go back. There is no comparison.
The only Japanese car I would get now would be a 300zx or a R34 skyline in 5 years once they become legal.
My impression is that it’s because Subaru’s systems (not all their AWD systems are the same for each car model) are dedicated AWD, meaning that they don’t ever default to FWD in prime conditions. They are always 50/50 front/rear torque distribution, until there’s wheel slippage.
The other systems like in a Rav-4 are reactionary, and default to FWD as often as they can for fuel economy. This was an advantage for MPG’s when Subie’s had the old 4-speed auto tranny, but that has now been negated by the CVT tranny’s that almost all Sube’s use now.
The WRX got last place because, as I stated somewhere in this thread, it’s been relatively unchanged for too long, has a very harsh ride that doesn’t translate into better skidpad grip, gets pretty shitty mileage due to gearing, and has tons of turbo lag. It’s still a blast to drive in the straights or in the bends, but it certainly has it’s drawbacks. Needs a complete redo, engine, transmission, body (bring back the hatch!!) and suspension. Their infotainment systems suck too.
But even with all that, the WRX would be the one to drive when the weather is bad.
Someone will pipe in with the tech side I am sure but there is something in the balance that seems to give Subs a better grip especially on ice. And I am comparing to other AWD (I consider full interlock 4WD a slightly different system) rather than to 2WD. I also don’t seem to notice it as much in normal dry conditions as I have on cars from some of the competition. Fords AWD always feels slow and heavy to me almost like driving into a wind all the time; just generally sluggish.
Magic, as far as I can tell. The old GL I was talking about is a smallish car but it stands noticeably taller (better ground clearance) than other coupes. It’s hard to describe, but in seriously difficult situations like deep sticky mud or getting over snow banks it seems to walk rather than roll. You just point the car at the problem, pick a speed, and the car figures out how to make it happen like it’s a nice sunny day on pavement.
Now, a Land Cruiser or a 4WD pickup can do that as well, but the difference is this is a car, not one of those big heavy beasts. It’s remarkable in that there is really nothing else like it on the road that isn’t over-priced and European. It eats front wheelers for breakfast.
I was thinking that I had told our Subaru story somewhere else on the SDMB.
Here it is again.
We got our first after moving back to the states from overseas and were working with a clean slate, so to speak. We bought a 2002 Forester. 10 years, 220,000+ miles. We took it back and forth across the country four times. Goldie fit 30+ large, black metal music stands from high school band in the back once, and a tympani another time.
I will say the road noise was terrible. We listened to books on CD as we traveled, and had to turn the volume up full blast to understand everything.
The timing chain broke a couple of months after replacing it, and took out the #3 cylinder. We had already replaced 2 sets of wheel bearings, and could not afford a car at all. My family generously bought us a new car, and we both cried the day we turned Goldie in to the dealer.
After 3 years with the unspeakable but free car, we moved to a place with actual winters, and we needed a car I would be all right driving in the winter. So now we have a 2015 Impreza Sport named Sylvia. We don’t have any good Subaru stories with her yet, because the prophesied bad winters never materialized. But we expect to get many more years out of her, and hopefully after we’ve paid off the loan we can afford to find some adventures.
I just watched a Forester blow up. A loud pop, then instantly the engine compartment and front burst into flame. It was parked/idling. I don’t know the cause.
Sounds like a fuel line burst, or maybe something really weird like a fuel injector came apart. Uncommon if not rare, and certainly not unique to Subarus.
Admit it, it’s effectively a supremely-balanced, underpowered RWD 2-seater. It’s an MR2 with the motor in the wrong place.
) which really was the ideal car for me, and (along with the GL) was unstoppable in snow.