Subjective Judgments

Subjective Judgments

What do we mean when we consider one judgment to be subjective while another is objective?

I think that when a person, an agent, makes a judgment about an object we must take into account the stability of the agent and the stability of the object. When the object is another agent the stability is different than when the object is an inanimate thing with an essence that changes only under rare or substantial forces.

The agent has many forces working on her or him when a judgment is made. Depending upon the ability of the agent in dealing with those forces determines to some extent the variability of the agent.

In making a judgment regarding a matter of physics the agent can be considered to be very stable because the physicist is trained to disregard subjective forces plus the paradigm of that particular natural science places tremendous controls on the agent. Also inanimate objects are unlikely to disturb the agent to nearly the degree as does political and social thoughts.

The agent making judgments about political or social thought has tremendous internal forces pulling in an irrational direction plus the object of consideration is almost always one or more agents with tremendous irrational forces at work also. I guess that there are seldom if ever paradigms involved in political and social domains of knowledge.

A subjective judgment does not take the real world into account. Sort of like all judgments made by the Bush Administration. They only listen to what’s going on in their own head and sort of forget about reality.

Depending on how you use the word objective, an objective judgment is a judgment that takes the real world into account or it can be a judgment that has no bias, or both.

Not quite the way I’d put it… I’d just say “people are flaky”. But the way you put it is cool, too.

The natural sciences deal only with entities that can be measured. For the natural sciences ‘to be is to be measurable’. The natural sciences deal only with objective judgments. Objective judgments are judgments dealing only with entities that can be measured.

Subjective judgments are about all other entities.

Many, many years ago a researcher I knew got a result he was not expecting. Thinking he’d made a mistake, he restarted the experiment from scratch. Got the same result; same result a third time. Two other researchers got the same result (each of them in triplicate, redoing from scratch with slight changes in protocol).

The response of the research advisor or the first two researchers: “impossible!” Uh, dude, it’s real therefore it’s by definition possible. This guy’s response put his expectations above reality; it was a subjective judgment and a wrong one.

The objective judgment was “our theory is flawed”. Theory can be wrong but reality is always right.

I never considered it to be a difficult concept to grasp.

An objective opinion or result would be one that is based on fact and not subject to interpretation or ambiguity.

Subjective of course would be the opposite of that. A decision or a result which may be interpreted or influenced by any number of variables.

I realize this is a simplistic definition but to the point at least IMHO

Here’s an objective fact: More adopted children receive psychological counselling than non-adoptive children.

A pro-adoption person might say: That is because adoptive parents are watching over the child more closely, and more attuned to the child’s needs.

An anti-adoption person might say:That is because adoptive children are missing their natural family, and that makes them go crazy.

Subjective things can be measured (or at least 8 out of 10 cats would agree that they can), but there’s no particular reason why they should be measured to be the same twice.

I suppose objective things are subject to change too - for example, rocks are subject to erosion. Hmmm…

OK, how about this: there is no such thing as an objective judgment - all judgments are subjective, as the act of judging is performed by a human subject. There can be subjective acknowledgments of what we perceive to be objective reality, and there are subjective assertions of what we arbitrarily judge, that cannot be expressed in terms of objective reality.

That’s not really any better, is it?

That which is perceivable to us is not the “things in themselves” — we have absolutely no access to that — but rather ourselves (and/or our extensions of ourselves via our instruments, more about that below) in relationship to the “things”.

You familiar with astronomy and the concept of parallax? The location of a celestial object appears to move against the backdrop of more distant objects as a function of whether the earth is at the winter end or the summer end of its orbit, that variation in observer-location being sufficient to change the viewing angle. A parsec is the distance at which a celestial object would have a parallax of one second of arc, and so on. Yes?

Use that as a metaphor. “Things” that are “close to us” — emotionally, culturally, experientially, historically, personally, as well as physically —may be perceived differently by different people. The “thing” has that meaning to the person for whom it has that meaning but only through communication and learning how to perceive the “thing” as others who are differently situationed experience it can we assemble a “view” of the “thing” that takes all these different “subjective views” into account.

And yet the “things” that are not close to us don’t truly lack that characteristic (any more than some way-distant galaxy billions of light years away from us truly lacks parallax) — it’s just that in some meaningful sense the total range of human experiences and perspectives on those “things” differs so little — the parallax is so infinitesimally small — that we lose nothing by ignoring it.

When I’m driving from New York to Georgia, I make use of maps that pretend that the earth is a flat-planed surface. I know that I’m actually traveling along the exterior skin of a sphere but taking that into account just obfuscates the clarify of routes and travel plans, it adds nothing useful. Were I to be flying a plane to Kamchatka, matters would be different. In a similar fashion, pretending than an “objective” world exists (in the sense of being available to us) is not just a semi-accurate shorthand, it’s a highly useful shorthand that enables clearer and easier thinking than dubbing in this awareness of how our perceptions are always, unavoidably, intractably subjective. Because for one reason or another (including the use of scientific method and technological instrumentation) the “parallax” is so small we’re best off ignoring it.

Now I said I’d return to the matter of our instruments and so forth. I just now said our perceptions remain subjective. And they do. And at the top I said what we perceive is ourselves in relationship to “things”, and it is perhaps useful and necessary here to point out that when we make use of an instrument, we experience the instrument, we experience what the instrument can tell us, and it is still ourselves in relationship to “things” that forms the ground of all that we can know. What science and measuring devices et al do for us is not to erase subjectivity but to provide us collectively with a way of experiencing things that is more consistent and reliably repeatable than our ways of experiencing them otherwise. Our experiences of our own devices and our scientific experiments’ observable data and so on are useful to us to the extent that they help to reduce the “parallax” of the underlying subject area we’re studying. (This is true in the larger sense even when in the immediate sense an experiment or an instrumental measurement makes a distinction between “things” that previously looked identical to all human observers. In the long run, and as the perception is integrated into the rest of what we think we know, it works to give us all a more unified, less “parallax”-dependent vision of the world in which we live).

Nava says–“Theory can be wrong but reality is always right.”

It appears to me that reality is right because you have defined it as being right. Sounds like a tautology to me.

What is a fact? I suspect you would agree that a fact is what the natural sciences call a fact. And the natural sciences call something a fact because they can measure it and they do measure it to be a fact.

AHunter

I looked for a conclusion but could not find it. Did I miss it on the way to Georgia?

Objectivity doesn’t exist.

(Not that things don’t exist independent of our conceptualization of them, but our awareness of things certainly doesn’t exist independent of our subjective experience of them. It’s all we’ve got)

Intersubjectivity, or “comparing notes” and “seeing things from other folks’ perspective”, is how we reconcile diverse or contradictory subjective perspectives on things. And scientific method and all of its tools falls into that category.

Clearer?

I think closing the eyespclised thread was a subjective jhysrudemenbt.