Such a BEAUTIFUL shade of grey! (or, favorite ambiguous characters)

No.
Galactus.

At least somebody should benefit.

Maybe I’m misreading your comment, but I don’t remember Mal EVER betraying his crew, nor would he.

He was talking about Jayne.

Londo Molari. An innately honorable man who none the less has a totally Machiavellian world view. A good man who does evil things. Who simultaneously achieves total power as an absolute slave. Whose friends always say “Poor Londo!” whenever they think of him after he meets his fate.

Scorpius. Fanatically willing to do anything to defeat an enemy compared to whom he is an angel of light.

See, I was thinking MAL was a pretty grey character. Sure, he’s looking out for his flock, but he’s got no compunctions about kicking a threat into an intake, or spacing a member of his crew for the right reasons.

I came in here to talk about Unforgiven but was beaten to the punch (so to speak). What an amazing film, with truly amazing actors in the three main roles. Each is terribly flawed, but in his heart feels that he is really doing the right thing.

And of course, being an alcoholic, I treasure the scene where Munny finally takes that drink, and you see the world darken… “We’ve all got it comin’, kid.”

… what about the Shepherd? Of course, we never really got to find out just what was up with his past.

I’m pretty sure he used to be an Operative, just like the guy in the movie.

Manny - I’m not sure how much you’ve read into things, however…

The Abbott has a guy with a bad leg at that Breanne passes while visiting the Abbey. Lots of speculation that he’s the Hound.

-Joe

See, I always figured he’d been a Believer, like the guy chasing River in the movie, which was how he knew so much. What I wonder is - if he was, did he retire (can you?) The Alliance took good care of him, so it’s not like he was on their bad list…
When does Jayne betray the crew in Out of Gas? I know he talks back to Mal a lot, but I’m rarely sure how much of that is talk and how much he actually means.
(I like to think he enjoys working for Mal, bu doesn’t realize it as he’s Tough Bad Guy #1!TM )
In Ariel he just betrays the Tams. Can’t remember the Pilot well enough to comment.

How’d Jayne betray Mal or the crew in Out of Gas?

-Joe

I could swear someone just asked that. :wink:

As far as I remember, Jayne was holding Mal and Zoe at gunpoint in Out of Gas–in one of the flashbacks to Mal’s past. In the present time in-episode he doesn’t betray Mal or Serenity’s crew.

Right, but Jayne wasn’t working for Mal…so there’s no ‘betrayal’ in that one.

-Joe

Point. :slight_smile: I really can’t think of a moment of actual betrayal in that episode at all.

Well, Jayne DID betray the bunch he was with to join the Serenity crew.

Dr. Herbert West, as depicted in the Reanimator movies. (Not so much as in the written form.)

Murderous, thouroughly amoral, and fiendishly manipulative…but not really malicious, or for personal gain. He’s in it for science. (Kinda like the old saying…“It’s not arrogance if you have the moves to back it up.”)

Rorschach—The kind of superhero you’d get if someone murdered the Zodiac killer’s Uncle Ben.

Marv—From Sin City. (ibid) Actually, I’m not sure he counts…he has a heart of gold, compared to the other scallywags in this thread. :smiley:

The Dune series is full of folks who are ruthlessly devoted (to the point of willingly sacrificing themselves) to long-term goals which they believe to be for the greater good, but may the puppygod help anyone who gets in their way.

Paul, Leto II, the Bene Gesserit, to name a few. And poor Duncan is caught in the middle of it for over 5,000 years.

Tom Ripley, as created by Patricia Highsmith, and especially as portrayed by John Malkovich in Ripley’s Game.. So charming, so intelligent, so sophisticated - so deadly!

Most of the central characters in **Robin Hobb’s Farseer series **are very ‘real’. You can’t hate the ‘bad’ ones, because you understand their perspective - and the ‘good’ ones can be hurtful and stupid just like real people.

Not to be confused with the *Liveship *series, which wasn’t a patch on it.