Star Trek geeks have long complained that aliens are, in large part, bipeds with different head bumps and gloves. Same seems to hold true for demons in the Buffyverse. Rare exceptions are a couple of serpents, the traditional cloud of colored smoke, and the odd small insecty creature or two.
Wondering if any of you creative geniuses might have any suggestions for different portrayals of demons/aliens that are within the capability of modern TV technology/budgets?
Well-trained animals in funky costumes, if it weren’t for the SPCA raising holy hell about fighting with them.
Two suggestions, for Buffy:
NOT CGI. It doesn’t look as good as you think it does.
I don’t mind head bumps and gloves at all, I’d just like to see some high-tech demons. Or vampires that aren’t afraid to use guns and stuff. We saw a little of that with Mr. Trick, but they killed him off before he could really shine with it.
More and more I think I should be watching Buffy…
Sluggy Freelance (www.sluggy.com) is an webcomic and they had an interesting comic about vampires using guns once:
Scientist: You’re a vampire, and I know you can’t come in my home unless I invite you in, so you can wait outside all night for all I care.
Sam the vampire pulls out a gun and shoots him in the leg.
Sam: Can I come in?
Oh, yeah, the OP… Centaurs. I like centaurs, I think we need more centaur-based aliens/magical creatures. Superintelligent shades of various colors ala Douglas Adams would be an interesting thing to explore. And demonwise I think something otherwise harmless-seeming would be a good idea.
“They’re attacking! Hmm, they seem to just be medium sized colored cubes.” And then the razor claws whip out.
–John
SPOILER
Darla, in either the pilot episode or the second, went after Buffy. It started out like it was going to be a slugfest, then Darls pulled out two HUGE automatic pistols and fired off, like, four thousand rounds of ammunition. I was watching this on FX and I recall thinking, “Now why has it never occured to me before this that vampires might use guns?”
Dinsdale: Agree on Star Trek, disagree on Buffy. The demons there, while often humanoid, are always very bizarre looking. And, they frequently have totally non-human monsters, such as the Mayor after his transformation, or the bugs on this weeks Angel. Speaking of which, Legomancer, I totally disagree with you on CGI. The giant bugs last Monday looked fantastic.
Dinsdale: I believe that was the same episode that Darla gets staked in, so I’m thinking that was a bit later in the season.
It’s funny. I was just having this discussion with my wife last night. Then we watched the rerun on FX. You know, with the Touracha assassins. Chick goes after Buffy with a pile of pistols. Didn’t work out so great. I guess it’s a matter of tradition and total lack of effectiveness.
She wasn’t a vampire, apparantly. Point still stands. Hand-to-hand, Buffy’s gonna come out on top every time. Buffy vs ten vampires hand-to-hand, bet it all on our girl. Give each of those ten vampires a couple of machine guns able to fire a few hundred rounds a minute and see how long she lasts.
You’ll notice that Darla never hit Buffy in the scene you mentioned, and was barely a threat, to the inexperienced Slayer. And Buffy’s rather an exception as Slayers go - others (like Kendra or Faith) happily shuck their mundane lives for their Slayertude. 10 demons with automatic weapons would still be 10 dead demons. They’d just very likely be 10 demons full of bulletholes.
I don’t understand the second portion of your post, concerning Darla getting staked.
Regarding the “bizarre looking” demons on Buffy. Let’s look at last Tuesday’s episode. Of the 4 card players, one had floppy ears and baggy skin, another had green skin and pointy teeth, the third had tentacles instead of hair, and the fourth was pink and had several eyes. The construction demons were green, had long pointy fingers, and their appearance and sound reminded me of insects or reptiles. The fake demon at the end was big and red, with a beard and wings. Sounds like a lot of variety.
BUT, they all were quadrapeds walking upright, with one identifiable head and nonsegmented body. Only reference to anyting odd was tentacle-head’s x-ray vision. I maintain these are but dressed up turtle headed Klingons.
I had the Mayor/demon in mind (along with Gloory’s snake) when I mentioned snakes. And I thought both looked very fake.
Regarding insects, I was thinking of the old (2d season?) Buffy episode where they were caring for eggs. (I think this was the first one I ever saw - and I was instantly hooked!) Also, the recent Enterprise campout episode.
I don’t watch Angel regularly. But the few episodes I did see had a lot of four-limbed, one-headed, upright walking demons. Maybe they seemed to use horns more than the other shows…
One is reminded of David Weber’s Oath of Swords books… We see one demon each in the two books. The first appears to be an unholy cross between a tarantula and a bat, and the second is a huge centipede creature. Neither has any trace of human features.
I totally agree about the bumpy forehead thing. With Buffy, it’s like saying “don’t forget to pack your angry eyes just in case.” I think aliens should look like nothing we’ve seen before. Not a dog with horns, or a two-headed bird, or an insect, but something really odd. I watched Angel once and was baffled by the green guy who looked like Screech fom Saved By the Bell. To their credit, though, I expect demons and vampires to look very human.
[adam sandler]
Look at me! I’ve got bumps on my forehead, I’m Mr. Bumpyhead alien. Give me some candy!
[/adam sandler]
Originally posted by Dale The Bold
Well, that’s the problem, you see. What doesn’t look like anything we’ve ever seen before? Well, nothing we’ve ever seen. So it’s hard to imagine. Name one film monster that meets your criteria, and I’ll be impressed.
Lovecraft did this pretty successfully, but mostly by calling his demons “too horrible to describe”, or some such.
We’re pretty much stuck with two options; either have our horrors described to us by the characters’ reactions (which can be done well, but would get old over the course of a series), or have demons that resemble things which we can relate to.
Because in addition to the limits of human imagination (Quick! Imagine something like nothing anyone has ever seen!), we’re faced with trying to create something that will show up well on video, can be filmed on a limited budget, and that can convey enough expression to be threatening, or sympathetic, or any range of emotions. That limits the scope pretty well, in and of itself.
I think both series have done pretty well, given these limitations, and I’ve been pleasantly surprised (or terrified) at the variety of monsters they’ve been able to create.
Personally, I wouldn’t mind one (and only one, mind you) episode where they go the Attack of the Killer Tomatoes route and get bombarded by usually inanimate objects. Y’know, like demonic super balls that need to be caught for some reason. Hilarity would ensue, I tell ya.
Here’s some aliens Star Trek could use: The Cooties. They’re your basic humanoids, only their skins are completely covered with a crawling mass of insects. The insects are actually symbiots, and serve as a secondary auxillary skin for their hosts. The Cooties are completely nice friendly people, just disgusting to look at. The insects could be added by CGI.
Dinsdale: Sorry, that second part was supposed to be addressed to Otto.
Dammit, didn’t mean to hit submit yet!
Like I said, the demons tend to be humanoid on Buffy, but not always. There was a pretty good snake demon being worshipped by frat boys in the second season, for example. Or the giant mantis/science teacher with a yen for virgins. Like MrVisible said, there are a lot of good reasons to have the demons etc. stay vaguely humanish, but Buffy is also willing to go totally inhuman when the budget has room. Mostly, though, I’m just objecting to Buffy’s neat-o demons being lumped in with the dish-water dull aliens in Star Trek.
BTW: The “egg” episode is on right now! Woohoo!
Need some more anthromorphic types. I just want to see how well they could pull off a lion like person in makeup
As far as Buffy…they need to bring back those freaky ass grinning guys from “Hush”. Scared the shit outta me.
Those guys were the Gentlemen. And you’re right, they were pretty freaky.
Realistically, a show only has so much money to spend on special effects. And it’s much cheaper to put some makeup on existing humans than use lots of CGI. I think that was one of the reasons Joss went with UPN, though, because they promised more money for special effects. Maybe that freed up the money on the WB for better effects on Angel, because Miller is right in that the bugs looked great, absolutely terrifying.
BTW, it was the second part of the pilot where Darla shot at Buffy and Angel staked her. Having not seen the first few seasons, before FX’s reruns, I was really surprised at how early this takes place, based on Angel’s reaction to her later. I thought for sure they would go on with their tormented relationship for a long time, but we really only get to see that in flashbacks on Angel.
Kyla: Darla was not killed in the pilot. She was killed in episode seven (entitled “Angel”), the one where she finds out that Angel is a vampire. Here’s a link to a synopsis of the episode. Scroll down to the “Body Count” section.