They think of them as “potential support consumers”.
**FYI, the topic of this thread is “Suggestions for Specific Demands for Occupy Wall Street” **
According to what I have seen on television news, there are no demands from the OWS (Occupy Wall Street) because they have no leadership. While the Labor Unions offered their support this week to OWS, they are not taking a leadership role, because they do not want to be seen as running the thing. Union labor is only another participant. Besides big labor is stuck with Barry Obama as their presidential choice which leaves them in a compromising position. I think big labor would like to dump Barry Obama. What big labor is saying so far is “We are here for OWS too.”
From the news reports the message that stands out to me, and I have heard no one disagree with is “America had a major financial crisis in 2008 caused by Wall Street. Main Street is hurting badly after picking up the TARP tab. No one went to jail after the biggest rip-off in American history. Now Wall Street is back in the money, and the banks are doing nothing to help the average American with housing or employment, which is why Wall Street was bailed out with taxpayer funds in the first place.” The International Brotherhood of Teamsters are the mavericks of the AFL-CIO, so I sent them a small check to support their efforts.
How about demanding that toilet paper dispensers be installed on every cop car?
Lincoln was elected on a platform of a gradual end to slavery. As soon as it became politically possible to end slavery in an area, he did so, until he could get away with ending it throughout the nation. The Radical Republicans criticized him for not moving faster, but he was only months behind them.
False unity is worse than no unity at all. We Dopers tend to be hyper-rationalists, we are suspicious of feeling that cannot be rendered into a sharply focused agenda. If we cannot argue about it, what damned good is it?
There is no real unity, and that’s sort of the point. We are similar only in that we see a few things with glaring clarity. But we see the same thing! Devout Christians and atheists, shop stewards and tattooed punks, reddit and 4-chan. People with nothing else in common but navels.
There are no leaders? Good, then there is nobody to make up a list of people to give speeches! No agenda? Good, then no arguments about that third word in the second paragraph, how it might be sexist. No talking points? Good, then we can speak our own minds in the manner appropriate to who we are talking to.
Were up to me, I’d probably say time to take down the tents and disburse, melt back into the blend that is our country. It wasn’t so much in reminding them of our numbers, but reminding ourselves that we are not alone. This has been done, take that home with us, take it to our friends and neighbors, take it to the voter registration place.
And fer Chrissake, no fucking spokesmen! Mike Moore has offered himself for the job, but there is no job, Mike. You got shit to do, Mike, go do it.
You really think we need slogans that don’t mean much? I don’t.
I think the protesters should figure out what they want, and why, and explain it on boards like this in an open-minded fashion. If they don’t want to do that, fine, that’s their right, but they won’t influence me.
ok
If they don’t figure out what they want, how will they know when to stop protesting?
Because they have a pretty damned clear idea of what they don’t want.
In that case, I guess they will be protesting forever. Good luck with that.
This is untrue. All TARP has been repaid except for about $25 billion. The current deficit is almost unrelated to TARP. I grant you, the Obama administration spent all the money paid back, but that is not because of TARP.
Cite.
Regards,
Shodan
That’s only part of the story. The banks may have repaid the money, but they also shifted the risk of their crappy assets being worthless onto the government. The ultimate loss on those will probably be huge.
Not to mention that the entire point of TARP was to strengthen the banks so that they would start lending again, which failed. They saw the bailout as a windfall, which they used to purchase competitors and reduce competition, pay off outstanding debt, justify fee increases, pay executive bonuses, etc. Plus it was used politically to argue against the large stimulus the economy needed, even though state and local governments were facing huge budget shortfalls and citizens needed unemployment assistance and debt relief.
So I would say that the decision to bail out the banks with few strings attached has been extremely detrimental to Main Street.
Then Atlanta must be full of the dingbats because they basically told John Lewis to F off.
I disagree with a number of things the man stands for in Congress but, hell, he’s a legend and a true American hero; an original Freedom Rider FFS!
Looks like some sort of attempt at a guiding principals doc.
Was passed on to me as a draft open for edits, additions etc.
"We the people in order to better our Union hereby state our beliefs.
We support Main Street, not Wall Street. This does not mean we are against all corporations or progress. On the contrary we believe in progress which enhances the common welfare, not merely the enrichment of the few.
We are not simply anarchists opposed to all systems of government, but rather we believe in government of the people for the people, not one which beholden to corporate special interests and lobbyists.
We are not looking to usurp your God nor steal the fruits of your labor. Our Democratic and Constitutional Republic assures us individual rights and freedoms that shall not be taken for granted.
We are patriots in the truest sense of the word, and have more in common with Locke, Rousseau, Paine and Jefferson than the Rothschilds, Goldman and Sachs.
We are your sons your daughters, your siblings, your parents and your friends.
We are the poor trying to achieve the American dream, the middle class struggling to maintain our quality of life, and even the wealthy who realize that morality and humanity should always trump financial gain.
We are not perfect, and have much to learn. There may be products we use, people we support, or corporations we patronize that we may change our views upon. Education is a lifelong endeavor.
We wish to put an end to the following:
Too big to fail
Corporate personhood
Highly leveraged derivatives
Unfair tax advantages for the wealthy
Corporate tax loopholes
Undue lobbyist influence
Secretive Federal Reserve
We the people shall do what is required as is required to assure our great nation the United of America, works equally for the improvement of the lives of its citizens and all humankind."
Sounds like something a junior high school kid would write for his civics class.
Well, it is the bottom 99%. You’re going to get that sometimes.
What do you think of the list of things they want to end? See any merit there?
Fair enough comment, I responded that it needs a rewrite for clarity but did seem on the right track to me. Do you listen to any of the rhetoric coming from politicians (aside from Ron Paul it seems) in their speeches, during debates etc? It is ‘dumbed down’ to the point of droning drivel. Perhaps you are out of touch with our citizenry or somewhat an elitist, which may be part of the very people the group of protesters are against. Repetition, an appeal to patriotism and paternity, sprinkled with a few fancy terms is what appears to work.
As for what I feel we need to do, it mostly involves regulation and oversight, something that will never pass in this country due to the strangle hold the monied have on our system (The Republicans on pigheaded mistaken idealism are against all regulation, and the Democrats though feigning support are just as much lapdogs). Wallstreet is a den of thieves and with the progression of technology serves little positive purpose even if functioning properly.
Do you ever bother to check out the lies you’ve been told? A moment’s effort would have enightened you. Somewhat.
Mr. Lewis was on his way to a scheduled event, and simpy dropped by the site of Occupado. He asked to speak, but was advised that other things were already scheduled, and asked if he could wait until they were done. He couldn’t, he only had a few minutes. Mr Lewis himself reports that he did not consider himself to have been disrespected.
You got a source saying he was told to “fuck off”? Would you be embarassed to offer it? At any event, you should not trust this source so willingly. They lied to you. By any chance, does it rhyme with “lox”?
I know exactly how it all works. I’m not expecting for one moment that there’s any chance of anything like that ever becoming reality, I’m just saying what I think is the best case for these people to make.
Let’s put it another way. I wouldn’t even make demands. Demands are what they shouldn’t make, for two reasons. Firstly, it makes them sound like a bunch of airplane hijackers. Secondly, any demands they make are going to be pulled apart in the media, ridiculed and what have you no matter how sober or serious they are. What they should do is ask a bunch of questions, like “why haven’t there been any indictments for what went on on Wall Street over ht epast decade?”, “why are we firing firefighters and teachers when corporate profits are at record levels?”, “why can’t corporations pay the same level of tax they did forty years ago – it would wipe out the national debt in a decade” and so on.
As far as why they haven’t made any demands up to now I think “We are the 99%” more than suffices as a high level answer. It’s quite a powerful message. It says “We don’t need to negotiate. This is our country and we want it back from the top 1% which has been selling us out.” The 1% know damned well what the 99% want, which is a more just society.