Suicide as a “solution” is, as the old adage goes, “curing the disease by killing the patient”. In other words, it cannot be considered a “solution” to any problem you might have.
Working off that logic, I have to believe that suicide should only be practiced if, for a certainty, there is no solution. That would preclude all forms of mental illness including clinical depression, because those can be treated with medicine, counseling and family support.
In the event of irreparable physical damage or illness or constant pain that can never be alleviated, then putting it to an end via suicide can actually be considered an act of compassion.
“Life is like a movie: if you’ve sat through more than half of it and it’s sucked every second so far, it probably isn’t going to get great right at the end and make it all worthwhile. No one should blame you for walking out early.”
The idea that everyone commits suicide because they are depressed, and all they need is drugs to not be depressed is bullshit. Not everyone kills themselves because of depression, and drugs do not help every depressed person.
Oh, if only treatment for mental illness was that reliable these days!
No, medicine does not help everyone with depression. Counseling does not always work. Families can be toxic. Some people don’t have families.
What you mentioned certainly helps, and many people do improve, but there is a certain percentage of people with mental illness for which we have no effective treatment.
No, but it is a very large number of them. Depression is very common, so while depression is not the mental illness most likely to lead to suicide (that’s bipolar disorder, last I checked, with borderline personality disorder also a strong contender), a disproportionate number of people who commit suicide are depressed because of how common it is.
And depression is definitely treatable. Even beyond that, the most common form of depression is temporary. While dysthymia exists, standard major depression is far more common, and it passes, usually within 6 months. Suffering for six months sucks ass, but a depressed person may not be the best judge of whether they want to wait that out.
I think we could certainly make life easier for people with mental illness. A person who is depressed due solely to brain chemistry might be depressed no matter what their environment or lifestyle is like, but perhaps if healthcare was more affordable and employers were required to give employees sick leave and the people around them were more sympathetic and supportive, then a person suffering from suicidal ideation would be able to get enough help to keep them from going over the edge. They might still be depressed, but at least they would be functional. But as it is now, people who are ill have to jump through a bunch of hurdles just to get a modicum of basic care…and when this basic care doesn’t work, mental health care skeptics cross their arms smugly in vindication. I believe that dysfunctional minds are frequently the result of dysfunctional bodies interacting with dysfunctional social systems. It is true that practitioners can only do so much, but perhaps they would be more effective if their clients had better resources and support networks.
I went through suicidal ideation several years ago. I was very lucky to have found a therapist who was able to work with my.work schedule and who charged me a sliding fee once my insurance ran out. I was also able to take off work whenever I needed to. If I hadn’t had these things, I really don’t know what I would have done. Maybe I would be someone who thinks psychotherapy is a buncha shit. Maybe I would be dead. I don’t know.
When I was unable to get a job and diagnosed with “situational depression,” I was told by 13 so-called “experts” in the mental health field to apply for disability and, if I was still depressed about being in the same depressive situation, to take “medication” (i.e. drugs). How does one determine if one’s depression is caused by chemistry or by environment anyway?
If the person want to end it because of depression or mental illness, society owes it to them to protect them (from themselves) AND get them the help they need (which society horribly fails at). If the person wants to end it due to terminal illness then have at it. I’ve already decided that if I get stage IV cancer or something similar I’m not going to give everything I worked for to doctors and hospitals. No to treatment. Instead I’m going to get the best bottle of burbon I can and head out to a little stream I know …
Addition - I would prefer that treatment including counseling, and job training, and probably at least temporary housing/$ were freely available. But I don’t see forcing a drowning person to grab a life preserver.
Further addition, I could imagine subsidizing the means for allowing individuals to do it in a manner that is not overly painful/messy and does not overly distress others. Calling Dr. K!
Yes, but I would add that before doing so, they need to seek counseling. But I believe suicide is a right, but not one to be taken without due consideration.
To me (second hand at best, and with minimal information) it sounds to me like those “experts” were only able to offer one type of help and likely it wasn’t what you needed. That’s what some of us are talking about when we say our society does a shit job of taking care of mental illness.
You tell situational depression from intrinsic depression by examining the environment. If, for example, you lose your job, your house burns down, and you wind up in the burn unit at the hospital and you feel depressed it’s quite likely your situation is a major factor if not the main cause of your negative mental state. If, however, you have a good job, a successful career, stable finances, a loving family… and you’re depressed enough to consider suicide it’s probably NOT your environment.
Needless to say, there can be overlap - someone with intrinsic depression that gets into a bad situation might well suffer from BOTH types at once. People prone to intrinsic depression are less likely to do well in bad situations. People who are not prone to depression are likely to be more resilient and cope better with bad situations, even when showing some depressive symptoms.
Wow. “Open-minded” and “emphatic” towards suicide are NOT a direction I want anyone or anything to go - we should work to do our best to solve the problems that lead people to want to murder themselves so self-killing, even when it might be the lesser of two evils or morally justified, is as rare as possible. Making suicide easier is not making the world a better place, giving people a desire to live and/or making their lives tolerable makes the world a better place. (I recognize that sometimes that is not possible).
This is a hard question to come to a firm answer to. Personally I have religious views that suicide is a sin. I had a friend who was considering killing himself and me and another friend were able to talk him out of it and he is doing fine years later. Personally I think a grown adult adult ultimately already has the power to do so any time already if not the legal right as we really can’t stop some one from doing so if they really want to do so.
That’s my feeling as well. While there are situations where it may well be the most humane course of action, like say in some specific cases/stages of terminal illness, it’s not something we should endorse as a society either, except in those aforementioned cases.
All too often someone gets twisted up in their own head about something, and decides that things are hopeless, and the way out is suicide, when in reality, they need someone to help them tease out that mental tangle, and start thinking about things straight. Yes, they may be adults and theoretically capable of making their own informed decisions, but the crux of mental illness like this is that almost by definition, you’re NOT capable of making informed decisions. So suicide shouldn’t be countenanced for this kind of thing.
Not sure exactly what “countenanced” means in this case. I don’t think people should be shamed or demonized for having committed or attempted suicide, no matter what their reasons were. But I agree that we as a society should try to discourage suicide as a solution to potentially fixable unhappiness.
That means, of course, that we have a responsibility to enable better solutions to fix the unhappiness, not just say “Tut-tut, you really shouldn’t commit suicide”.