Summer tires (need answer before Friday's snowstorm)

Factual Questions
21

For winter, I use Nokian Hakkapeliitta studded winter tires. When it snows, driving is good as opposed to treacherous. Since I’d rather live longer, I use winter tires in the winter.

With summer tires, you are more likely to slide when you are trying to stop, slide when you are trying to turn, bounce sideways when you are driving in tire ruts in slush or heavy snow, and spin your tires when you require traction to get moving up a hill or get moving in heavy snow. How serious is it? Well in Quebec it is illegal to not use winter tires in winter months, and in Ontario all auto insurance companies are required to give a discount to you if you use winter tires in winter months, such that it in the long run it is cheaper to use winter tires in the winter even after the cost of a second set of rims is factored in.

To grip the road, a tire must be soft but not so soft as to prematurely wear down. To be at the optimal softness when in use, winter tires are made of a softer compound than summer tires, due to the air and road temperatures in the winter not warming up tires as much as in the summer. The good part of this is that winter tires work far better in the winter compared to summer tires used in the winter due to summer tires not being soft enough in the winter to grip the road. The bad part of this is that winter tires are so soft that if they wear faster, and if they are used in the summer they will prematurely wear out – thus the need to switch to summer tires for the summer.

Aside from the soft grip issue, winter tires usually have more sipes (slits in the treads that let the treads flex more and dissipate water more) and deeper treads with broader channels to dissipate more water, snow and slush. These features make a big difference in helping you control your vehicle on snow or ice.

Studded winter tires used to perform better on ice than non-studded winter tires, however, that is debatable now depending on the make and model of winter tire. Finland’s Nokian, which made its reputation on winter tires, is still pushing studded winter tires as being the best for winter driving. The tread of studded winter tires is not worn down quite as quickly due to the studs (although the studs wear down on dry pavement), but there is a little bit of noise and a slight vibration when using studs on dry pavement. Studs harm pavement, so they are restricted to use in winter months only: “2006 Code of Virginia § 46.2-1044 - . . . The use of studded tires shall be permissible only from October 15 to April 1”

For non-studded tires, consider Nokian Hakkapeliitta or Goodyear Blizzak. Both are excellent in snow and brilliant on ice.

For studded tires, consider Nokian Hakkapeliitta with studs molded into the tire during the tire’s manufacture. Studs inserted by the tire store are good, but rip out more frequently. Do not insert studs if the tire has been used. Studs are inserted by shooting them into the stud holes. If there is already grit in a hole and stud is shot it, there is a risk that the grit will push down into the tire and weaken it, and there is a risk that if it does not do the former, it will prevent the stud from being fully seated, leading to the stud ripping out during use.

Rather than re-mount tires on rims twice a year, purchase a second set of rims for the winter tires. Heavy steal rims will deal with snow and slush on the highway better than light aluminum rims (and second hand steel rims are inexpensive if cost is an issue). Cost wise, in the long run it only comes down to the cost of an extra set of rims, for when you are not using a set of tires, they are not wearing out. Be sure to keep track of which tire is were on the vehicle, and make the swaps during a tire rotation.

What it comes down to is weighing the safety of you, your passengers, and other users of the road against the cost of a set of rims.

22

Wide, flat, tires on a light sports car are not a very good way to get around in the snow. You tend to just sit on top of the snow without getting any real traction "bite’.

I tried to drive my Trans Am last year in about 3 inches of snow. If I could just get to the highway it would be clear enough that I could go the 11 miles to work. Nope! I pulled it out of the garage and got stuck, on flat ground, in 2 or 3 inches, but did manage to get back into the garage.

And these were Cooper All Season tires, which just means the tread pattern is more open. Fortunately the wife’s F150 was available.

I hope you have good luck with your winter tires but I am not real confident. Your car just isn’t really suited to snow. But a lot depends on what type of snow, really cold snow will be better than warm slippery stuff. And the transition between really cold and thawing will be a bitch.

Good luck.

23

Congrats on getting snow tires. Very smart decision.

24

Where was it originally sold? There are broad swathes of the country that never get any meaningful snow, though as far as I can tell OEM tires are generally the same everywhere but California.

25

Major brain fart on my part – should be Bridgestone Blizzak, not Goodyear. (My summer tires are usually Goodyear, so it looks like a synaptic gap misfired.) My bad.

26

I forgot about how summer-only tires tend to grip less on cold (but dry) pavement. It’s a noticeable difference, but not horrible; for summer-only tires, my experience is that driving in summer rain provides less traction than driving on cold dry pavement.

If storage is a problem for you, some tire shops will, for a fee, store your summer tires in winter (and vice versa); their fee may or may not include changing your tires for you.

You’ll want to ask a tire shop to be sure, but I suspect it’s not a good idea to keep mounting and unmounting tires. Besides which, you’ll be paying them for each tire change/rebalance. Tire Rack lists 18" rims for your car for just $137 apiece. You will recover some of this when you resell your car later on.

27

All season tires are better than summer tires if you only occasionally have to deal with light snow and thin slush on warm winter days, but they are not in the same ballpark as true winter tires, and even then, when it comes to true winter tires, there are significant performance differences between makes an models. If you regularly drive in snow and slush, go with true winter tires. If your roads are clear and dry in the winter, with only the occasional snowfall, then you can get by with all-season tires if you remember that they handle more like summer tires then winter tires in the winter.
As far as the cost of winter rims go, steel rims are less expensive than aluminum rims, and used/refurbished steel rims are less expensive than new steel rims, so consider searching about for used steel rims for next winter. Re-mounting a tire repeatedly is hard on the bead which slightly increases the risk of failure, and there is a small fee to mount a tire, so in the long run, used/refurbished wheels pay for themselves over the life of a car. Winter road salt corrodes aluminum and steel, so if you want to keep your aluminum rims looking good, use scrapper steel wheels in the winter. More importantly, the heavier steel wheels will be more effective when you are being bounced about driving in slush or heavy snow. Consider looking for used steel wheels in the spring and summer for installation next winter.

28

I can find used steel wheels in the Pick n Pull for under $20 each (usually around $12 for 15 inchers). I’ve got extra sets for a few of the cars.

The weather around here is kinda hit and miss all winter, and I’ll swap the wheels 3 or 4 times a season sometimes.

Looking forward to a good El Nino year, I picked up a set of Goodyear Ultragrips (with a double rebate!) and have been happily using them! I mounted them on a set of wheels that fit 4 of my cars, so I can move em around to whatever I feel like driving if I have to.

Its gonna snow from 2 to 4 feet this weekend! (fingers crossed)

29

In some states, driving with summer tires in snowy conditions can get you the same ticket as driving on bald tires. Although in practice it’s only going to happen if you’re in an accident, or if a cop happens by while the tow truck is pulling you out of the ditch you inevitably slid into.

30

Powder days?

31

18 inch steelies should run you less than $100/rim and as noted above saves your rediculously expensive alloy 19s from getting beat up. TR will sell them complete and mounted but if they are already on the way, have a look at Walmart as they are about the least expensive place I found for steel rims. Bring them into the tire shop of your choice and have them installed along with tpms sensors (which should be roughly $25 each). Much less hassle than remounting twice a year, and most shops will do the swap free if you get them put on there.

32

Hello,

I figure I’d share my thoughts too.

I live in the DMV area as well. I’ve owned my G37S for 6+ years. It should be quite similar to your Q60S. I’ve had summer and all-season tires and both are completely inadequate, even in light snow. The combination of RWD and wide tires (mine are staggered, 225 in the front and 245 in the rear mounted on 19") make the tires feel like they’re hockey pucks in any true “wintry” conditions (accumulated snow and/or ice, at or below freezing). Perhaps if it was between 35-45 degrees and it was raining could you tell a noticeable difference between all-seasons and summers, but with any accumulated snow, all bets are off. The first time it snowed about 1", I was stopped at a light on the slightest incline, and started sliding backwards. After that, I garaged the G37 and took the beater.

After my first winter, I quickly purchased a set of winter tires mounted/balanced on rims. You should verify independently for your car, but since the snow tires are not low profile, I got 225’s mounted on 18"s all the way around while maintaining a proper tire outside diameter. I’d really recommend eventually getting a new set of rims; I can easily do the swap at home on my own schedule rather than bringing it to a shop for mounting/balancing (saving time, $$$, and the potential the rims get scratched in the process) AND I’m likely at a higher risk of curbing my rims in the winter so I figured I’d rather scratch a cheap set than my stock 19’s.

Back in 2011, I paid $636 for Michelin Ice Xi2’s and $516 for the 18" rims. I was a Costco member at the time and they didn’t offer the size I needed. I ended up ordering off of Tirerack.

Good luck.

33

The snow I live in now is powder. Not a big problem tire-wise unless you meet with a drift.

DC snow, as I remember it, is like Crisco. My VW could handle it pretty well with factory tires (this was in the 80s) but I was also young and immortal then.:rolleyes:

34

And - far worse - most will have a DC-area driver behind the wheel.

I know of places that are sorta close, but none whose drivers can match the hopelessness typical of about 40% of DC drivers in snow.

35

It sounds to me that are likely not experienced at driving on snow and ice, a real skill. The combination of summer tires and lack of winter driving skills is very bad. If your driving on level ground and know what you are doing, you will likely be okay. Otherwise, bad news.

36

Believe it or not, I don’t much care for powder. Mogul skier. I just want the rocks covered up and a season that lasts into May.

Filling up the lakes is okay, too. :wink:

37

Great post, thanks for that. The Q60 is exactly the G37. They just renamed it in 2015. My tire sizes are the same as yours (225/45R19 front, 245/40R19 rear). I may eventually get the spare set of rims, but I’ve already bought 19" tires so I want to move to 18" later for winter tires, I need some time to sort it out. This was kind of an emergency decision and I usually take more time with this sort of thing.

I lived in Ann Arbor for 8 years and learned a little about driving in snow. DC drivers take a bad rap on this because snow here is not like snow in MI. Temperatures usually are not as low so when snow lands it melts and creates much more slippery conditions than the fluffy powder that often falls in the midwest. Because temperatures dance around freezing you also get freeze/thaw cycles that create icy conditions. Right now it’s snowing in my area, and just minutes ago I saw a car fail to negotiate a right turn; he just slipped out of the turn, and he wasn’t going that fast. It’s deceptive.

38

Summer tyres simply can’t handle any snow at all , even 1/4" is too much.

39

I would speculate that convertibles are more likely to be sold with summer tires because people are less likely to drive a convertible in cold weather. I have no evidence at all for this, though.

40

I was living in DC some years back when a major snowstorm hit. I am not surprised that DC drivers abandon their cars rather than try to drive home in snow conditions that they are not familiar with.

What surprised me is that they didn’t bother to pull to the side of the road before doing so. It made snow removal much more difficult.