Saturday noon. Had errands to run. Light snow in the morning, forecast called for it to turn into rain by noon as temps got above freezing. So I thought the roads would be fine. Especially in a 4 wheel drive Jeep.
I head out into rain which turned out to be freezing rain, at least when it hit the still-cold road. I’m on a neighborhood 35mph limit, two lane with yellow divider type road, probably doing 25 because the road looked awful icy. I’m a Michigander so I have plenty of experience driving in bad conditions, and I don’t take the 4 wheel drive for granted. Coming up to a stop light still far away, I give the brakes a little tap to test conditions, and that’s when I first knew there would be trouble. I was a couple thousand pound curling stone on a road with a base layer of ice and water on top.
I start to skid. I try to turn into the skid, but that has no effect at all. I go all the way around 180 degrees, sliding into the opposite lane. First I think, thank God there’s no opposing traffic. Second, feels like I have enough momentum to take out the street sign I’m heading straight for at the side of the road. Oh well, I’ll get off fairly easy if it’s just that. Third thought, hope I don’t have enough momentum to hit the ditch just beyond the sign, or I’ll flip or at least land on my side.
At the last second I do another 180 and stop pointed exactly where I meant to go, just in the wrong lane. No damage whatsoever except to my nerves.
Then, I have a decision to make. I’m a half mile from home and I was intending to drive about 20 miles across town. Almost turned tail and went home, but I can’t let old man Winter win, can I? I figured with the rising temps, plus getting to more main roads that are better salted, I should be fine. And I was- no more issues the rest of the day. Pretty scary though. Had some bad weather close calls, but never did an unintentional (think there was a parking lot donut or two in my early days) 360.
This is one more reason why I don’t live in Michigan anymore. I was in probably a dozen similar situations on Michigan roads growing up, starting with the time at 5 when my mom spun around and flew off the icy road, threading the needle between a tree and an outhouse, and we spent the next couple of hours in someone’s farm house waiting for a tow truck.
I left the state at 18, so most of the experiences were with other people driving (e.g. friends moms and such). Even so, in the two years I was driving there I managed to spin out a few times, especially on glare ice. It sure gets your blood pumping!
Twice in my life I’ve managed to spin a car, both well more than twenty years ago . First in my brother’s VW Bug; I misjudged just exactly how rear-end-heavy it was taking a turn. Second in my own car; I hit an oily patch on a wet street. Luckily for me, in both cases my immediate surroundings were free of any obstacles, so the only damage done was to my life expectancy…
I did a 360 on a snowy highway 2 years ago going about 40mph just after sunset. After striking the median, I did another 180 and came to rest facing traffic. I was totally disoriented and I thought I might be in the middle of the highway, as I sat there blinded by the truck headlights in my face. Fortunately, I was close to the median. After highway patrol came I was even able to drive it off the highway, though not much further.
Your story is much better than mine- it’s wonderful that you got off without a scratch. Although I had significant damage, ***my family ***got off without a scratch, and I am similarly thankful.
I haven’t owned a car since 2000, but my last car was a Mustang with rear power and no traction control. I was young enough that I found the winter challenge of driving that thing on ice/snow/slush fun rather than harrowing. Lots of fishtailing, somehow never spun out unless it was on purpose.
I have done carsharing for the last 8 years, and am grateful for the newer cars I drive with that service rather than whatever beater I would be able to afford in the city. I can usually avoid driving in weather, but it was unavoidable a couple Christmases ago when I had to make my trek to the far west suburbs. I delayed my leaving by a couple hours because it was whiteout snowing and I don’t drive enough any more to be confident about the conditions when I can’t see more than 50 feet. It cleared up a bit and I gave it a shot. The trip was mostly OK except for one stoplight where I started stopping with plenty of time, but being a holiday the salt trucks were a little slow and it was solid ice. I had never experienced an ABS activating before, but it did that time and I was grateful. Stopped the skid much better than I could have on my own, and on a 4-lane road with turn lanes (so, 5 across nearing the stoplights) and traffic, that was no small feat!
It’s one of the worst feelings in the world, isn’t it, losing control of your vehicle on ice?
I learned to drive in California, moved to Idaho when I was 19. My sister came to visit and we decided to go check out downtown Boise. I drove. It was the first time I’d driven in snow and ice. As I approached a stop light downtown, I hit my brakes – and started to spin. I had absolutely no idea I was in trouble until I hit those brakes. I did a slow, lazy 360 right through the intersection against the red light… right in front of a cop. The cop flicked on his lights, noticed my California plates, turned his lights back off and threw up his hands in disgust. I did my best, “Whaddayagonnado?” gesture in response, regained control of the vehicle and pulled over. The cop turned his lights off and just drove past me. I figured out how to drive properly in the snow and ice quick after that.
I avoid freezing rain like the plague, won’t drive in it for anything. Glad you are all right, solost. Very scary, for sure!
Very glad you are OK. the last time I did a 360 was in the late 80’s on an apparently ok road- “black ice” and I had the two girls with me. It was my last RWD vehicle, other than a 4WD pickup, and I’m still very wary in that sort of weather. We don’t get much of it here, thankfully.
It’s the other dam fools on the road I worry about
I’m 44, and I still find it fun. In my RWD car, I turn off stability control because I find it entertaining. Snow tires help a lot.
Not a fan of 4WD/AWD. When we bought my wife’s CR-V a few years ago, we opted for FWD instead of AWD. Saved $1500, and put that money toward snow tires/rims. Provides plenty of go, and also better stopping and steering than AWD+all-season tires.
Thanks for the well wishes. I at least wasn’t going too fast when it happened, and there was no oncoming traffic. Stories like Blue Blistering Barnacle’s, losing control on a highway, have to be 1000 times scarier.
Ugh, had snow last night and it was 10 degrees this morning, too cold for salt to melt it. Had to do my 30 mile commute to work on snowy freeway roads. Didn’t seem too bad though. I think the combo of unsalted ice and water I hit on Saturday just happened to be the perfect conditions to wipe out in.
Thanks, minor7flat5. But as for being glad you no longer experience Michigan conditions, isn’t New Jersey just as bad, if not worse? Seems like the east coast has gotten hit with some major snow the last few winters. Do they do a better job clearing the roads out your way?
Thanks for the well wishes. I at least wasn’t going too fast when it happened, and there was no oncoming traffic. Stories like Blue Blistering Barnacle’s, losing control on a highway, have to be 1000 times scarier.
Ugh, had snow last night and it was 10 degrees this morning, too cold for salt to melt it. Had to do my 30 mile commute to work on snowy freeway roads. Didn’t seem too bad though. I think the combo of unsalted ice and water I hit on Saturday just happened to be the perfect conditions to wipe out in.
Thanks, minor7flat5. But as for being glad you no longer experience Michigan conditions, isn’t New Jersey just as bad, if not worse? Seems like the east coast has gotten hit with some major snow the last few winters. Do they do a better job clearing the roads out your way?
I agree 100% that the proper tires are more important than anything else…that said, I put proper winter tires on my WRX this year, and we got out first real snow last night. That car is an absolute BEAST in the snow…I’ve never driven anything quite like it. AWD + snow tires may be overkill, but it’s pretty amazing.
I’ve driven little FWD two-seaters (like the Honda CRX) and high-HP RWD sport coupes (like the BMW M3) too, and even cars like that with snow tires are in fact better than my WRX was with the strictly summer (not all-seasons) that it came with. I wish more people would understand that all-season tires are equally BAD in all seasons.
This is a good point- I still have the original tires from when I bought my Jeep, and I believe they’re strictly midrange at best in terms of performance. At 50,000+ miles they don’t quote need replacing for wear, but I’m definitely thinking of getting at least better all-season tires, or maybe go all out with winter tires.
Couple dumb questions about winter tires- never owned any. Do you typically get the tires swapped off the rims at season changes, or do you get a whole second set of rims? How do winter tires handle on dry pavement- are they just louder, or are there other issues to be aware of?
Personally I just swap the tires off the rims. I know a lot of people get some steel rims just for winter driving and keep the winter tires on those. This helps protect your aluminum rims from the winter salt as well as reducing stress on the tire and costing less when it is time to switch the tires.
ETA: The winter tires handle just like all seasons on the dry pavement. They have a different rubber formulation that is grippier in temps that are below freezing so they handle better than all seasons would in cold environments and have better stopping power even on clear roads.
Thanks for the info! Dumb follow-up question: if winter tires handle the same on dry pavement, why not just leave them on year-round? My guess is, something other than handling is sacrificed for better below-freezing performance, either they wear out faster or cause lower gas mileage.
New Jersey winters are very mild in comparison to the Michigan winters of my youth.
We might get two or three decent snow storms a year, and there might be some really cold days once in a while.
When I was a kid in Ann Arbor I remember that there always seemed to be a week or two of proper zero-F weather every year, the kind where you feel the snot freezing in your nose as you breathe.
I also remember that from November to April grass was a rare sight. NJ is nothing like that.
The rubber if formulated for cold weather and is softer than the rubber in all season tires. You could leave them on but they would wear much more quickly than the all season tires.
I bought a really cheap set of plain-Jane steel wheels for my winter tires. This means I never have to pay a tire shop to swap tires back and forth, and I can switch between summer and winter wheel/tire setups in my own garage at any time and very quickly (like, right before a surprise early snow is forecast). I’ve done it the other way, and I think the cost of a cheap set of wheels is worth it.
They handle nicely on dry pavement as long as it’s cold-- they’re made to basically be the right hardness in cold weather. There are minor differences in noise and handling, but that’s expected in any two sets of different tires. When it warms up, you’ll want to switch back soon so as not to chew up the winter tires on warm pavement (some winter tires are way worse about this than others).
As a side note, consider the long-term cost when making a decision…some people just think of the cost of winter tires as an “extra” – but when you’re using them, that’s a big chunk of the year you don’t put wear on your normal tires, so it takes longer to rack up the miles on them and they will last longer. In the long run, it’s not that big of a cost.
