In DC even the underground parts of the Metro shut down in a big snowstorm.
Why do they do this? With the roads virtually impassable, I would think that people would be even more reliant on trains than ever.
This is actually an irresponsible post.
No matter how skilled you are, summer tires will not – REPEAT: WILL NOT – bite under many road conditions. You will go no where. NADA. You’ll stand still… no traction, etc.
FACT: summer compounds (read labels) often are damaged by exposure to cold temperatures. For example, they are not for use under 40 deg f., but at 20, the compound is damaged (each tire mfgr will add info per tire model; it varies).
Every responsible enthusiast and gear head I know, from professional race car drivers competing in IMSA to SCCA amatuers drive rear-wheel drive cars and feel no need to get AWD or 4WD because of one thing: WINTER TIRES WORK.
The stopping distances: This is astounding in and of itself. No matter how skilled you are, ABS can make use of your summer tire on a cold snowy road OR it can modulate with the extra grip of a proper winter tire. No matter how YOU drive, something suddenly may appear in your lane, and when the ABS is called on, it will, in fact, stop sooner and be less likely to spin your vehicle with the extra grip provided by winter tires.
ENOUGH. If one chooses a preposterous position, such as “Oh, summer tires are just fine for the skilled driver (yay me!)” then come in here and refute everything by posting cites.
Winter tires make an amazing difference… and the driver is still required to be safe and cautious.
You could always make a trip up to central Maine this weekend. The storm’s supposed to miss us completely.
If you want to see a good demonstration of summer tires vs. winter tires, check out this video. It shows two nearly identical cars trying to climb a snow-covered hill, with winter tires and with summer tires. One is front-wheel drive, and one is all-wheel drive.
A quick summary: even an all-wheel drive vehicle is rubbish in the snow with summer tires.
That said, in a place like D.C., I don’t think I would spend the money to swap over. I mean, how much snowfall do you actually get in a year? Doesn’t everything just shut down that far south anyway? Are you anticipating a need to go out in the storm? Get what you need beforehand, so you can spend the weekend in your house.
On the coast of Maine, it makes perfect sense for me to swap over to studded tires in November. We don’t shut everything down because of a snowstorm, so I still have to get to work, as does just about anyone else who doesn’t have a school or government job. But that far south? I don’t think it would be worth the bother. Are studded tires even legal down there?
FWIW: Winter tires can be studded or non-studded.
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Thanks for the link. Their other winter tire vid compares when stopping and emergency turning. As you say, summer tires are rubbish in the snow with summer tires.
For Virginia, yes, but I haven’t checked for its neighbours.
One other note.
When we talk about “summer tires” in thread, we are not talking about all-season tires or other conventional tires–we are talking about high-performance tires that the manufacturer intends only for warm-weather use. I talked to the manufacturer on the phone and they said absolutely do not use these tires in snow and they recommend not using them under 40[sup]o[/sup]F. Here is what it says about my stock tires on the web site of a tire retailer:
I’d say yes. There’s a benefit to winter tires even if it’s not snowing; for example, wet and cold (freezing-45 deg F) temps, which are common for 3-4 months out of the year here in DC. The compounds used in summer and all-season tires harden before those used in a winter tire.
Also consider that a winter tire is not purely an additional operating cost; when you’re riding on winter tires, your A/S or summer tires are not being worn, so they will last longer. I think of the additional wheels (or mounting/balancing cost) as a small price to pay for having the proper equipment on at the proper time.
When you factor in the cost of the car, the well being of yourself and others, and the time/cost of insurance, having winter tires starts to make even more sense.
They have already announced that rail service will be shut down at 11 PM tonight, opening Monday morning at earliest. They are on public PEPCO power and a power outage could strand thousands of passengers underground in tunnels. Bus service will stop at 5 PM today.
Then that driver is not a skilled driver, for an important driving skill is sensitivity.
I get that summer compounds harden up and provide poor grip in cold temperatures, but how are they actually damaged?
No common driver is more skilled than ABS.
Winter vs Summer in stopping from 30 MPH. Summer tires: 87 meters. Winter tires 27 meters.
Some will permanently flat spot, too. They spend some time on cold pavement and wind up out of round. This applies to some extreme high-performance summer tires, but they are showing up on more and more production vehicles, and from major makers, such as GM.
What if I remove the (hypothetical, in my case) summer tires but store them outside during the winter? What if I store them in an unheated garage, or leave them mounted on a car in an unheated garage? Will they also be damaged? Do I need to store them in a heated part of the house?
Curse you, Muffin. I just wasted the last hour watching old WKRP videos.
Not sure about outdoors, but in a garage (heated or not) on one of these
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben-parts/wheel-tree-with-casters/003639sch01a~a/ and they should be fine.
Obviously, one has an edge when driving on season appropriate tires, no argument there. I simply differ in my opinion as to the import and magnitude of that edge.
As to your call for cites, I offered none because I was expressing said opinion, as was/is the case with pretty much everyone else, yourself included. (Cite: Your observation concerning 2WD -vs- AWD and 4WD…) Really?
Well, the snow is pouring here now, and I’m off to the store for some liquid medication to help me endure our latest crisis. Good luck to all… And happy motoring!
Tires are made from polymers, which exhibit a high degree of viscoelasticity. This means that the stress in the material depends not just on how far you deform it, but how fast you deform it. Classic example is Silly Putty: you can stretch it slowly to great lengths, or jerk it suddenly and actually cause it to break. So for summer tires:
-Sitting on a shelf in cold temperatures? very little deformation under their own weight, and it’s constant (no change over time). Tires will be fine. I store my summer tires on a rack in my garage in Ann Arbor; never had any issues with them.
-Bearing the weight of your car in an unheated garage? They’ve deformed pretty significantly due to the weight of your car, but as long as it’s parked, it’s constant (no change over time). Shouldn’t be any cracking, though Philster points out the possibility of developing a permanent or semi-permanent flat spot. My guess is that they’ll even be OK (crack-wise) if you’re just moving the car around in your driveway or garage at low speeds (very slow deformation, so minimal viscous stresses).
-Driving down the highway in winter temps? Very rapid deformation every time they go around, and very large/rapid deformation when rolling over a bump in the road. Possibility of cracking the rubber, as outlined in the article I linked to upthread.
I recall hearing a long time ago that motorcycles should be stored off-season on their centerstand rather than their sidestand, as the former removes the weight from the tires, reducing the likelihood of flatspotting. Presumably motorcycle tires (esp. sportbike tires) are made of material similar to automotive summer tires, so this is all dovetailing nicely.
Read each mfgrs label/guide.
For example, a summer tire might not be backed or approved when used under 40 degrees F. In other words, “Do not use below 40 F”. 40 is a common cutoff point. Damage to the tire comes at a much lower temp – usually. Yes, just storing them at/below the critical ‘damage’ temp is a problem.
Further on, you might read that the tire can be damaged if used or stored below 20 degrees F. I have a set on my car that say something like that in the description from Tire Rack, who goes out of their way to highlite this point in the description. My car is on jackstands. My garage will get down into the 40’s. I’m good. This is an example.
I have a car in storage, and I can’t deal with the temps there, but needed extreme performance tires on it (summer extreme), for street and autocross use. My top pick tire would have been damaged inside a storage unit that is going to be whatever the outside temp would be.
It’s highly unlikely storing the summer tires outside is practical. Although I’ve see a few that can tolerate something like 5 degrees before their compound is considered compromised.
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FTR
My daily driver has Continental winter tires.
My weekend/play car has Bridgestone Pole Positions and is on jack stands in a chilly but not freezing garage
Car in storage has Toyo Proxes R88 – amazingly, these street/autocross tires will tolerate very low temps. Toyo’s limits are 15 degrees before cracking may occur.
Example of literature: http://www.tirerack.com/images/pdf/ColdWeather_TireStorage-6.pdf