This was an interesting article but again is lacking something that I heard. I’ve heard often than Sunday was not originally the start of the week but rather the last day. Why it has become to be the first and how this coorelates with the whole explanation given in the article I don’t know. What I do know is that this IS used. When I was recently in Italy I noticed many calendars using Monday as the first of the week and Sunday as the last.
Sorry, did it again…
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_339.html
Wrong link. You linked to this week’s column on aluminum and magnetism.
The correct link: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_140.html
I have noticed that Latin cultures do use Monday as the first day and Sunday as the last day of the week (at least in my experience with Spanish that was so).
I’m not sure why that is.
What does this have to do with MAGNETS and ALUMINUM???
Possibly actually relating to: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_166.html (Why are there seven days in a week?)
Or Possibly this one: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_140.html (Why do Christians worship on Sunday when the Bible says the Sabbath is on Saturday?)
It really is irrelevant WHAT day you place at the ‘start’ of a week on a calendar; the significant issue is how people actually ‘think’ about the week. I would venture to say in America, most people think of Monday as the start of a week, even those who don’t work a traditional Monday to Friday schedule.
Sorry I can’t look this up for you - my Bible reference stuff is out in the garage somewhere - but there is a passage in the book of Acts that indicates that the believers got together for a meeting at least one time “on the first day of the week.” It does NOT indicate that this was any kind of a practice, or an ongoing custom, but it does say that they did it once. Some people think that this is the origin of the every-Sunday tradition.
As long as one can trace back the Jewish tradition that moved into Christianity (the Romans, for example, observed an eight-day “week”), Sunday has definitely the first day and Saturday the seventh.
The five-day work week has led to a modern change in which Monday is the first and Sunday is the last. But that’s 20th-century.
John W. Kennedy
“Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.”
– Charles Williams
My WAG…
First, Constantine made Christianity the official Roman religion. He decided God was more important than rest, so he moved the holy day to Sunday, the 1st day of the week, instead of Saturday, the last.
Later, some Roman Seventh Day Adventists decided to revert to the biblical injunction of making the seventh day holy. However, the culture of worshipping on Sunday was already ingrained, so they just swapped the “First” day of the week to Monday (Lunes in Spanish).
It’s been my experience that any calendar you buy in Europe will have Monday in the very left column, and Saturday and Sunday together on the right, thus effectively treating Monday as the first day of the week.
Official winner of Bricker Challenge #5.
Sheesh! What is it about the name “Constantine” that makes people feel free to make up weird stories about him? Didn’t you read what I posted before? Pagan Rome observed an eight-day cycle. (The seven-day – quarter-of-a-month – week had some vague ritual acknowledgement, too, but it was the eight-day period that mattered for nearly all legal and social purposes.) This situation was changed because of Christianity.
And the Bible makes it crystal clear that, to the Jews, Sunday was always the first day and Saturday was always the seventh day. Gentile Christians held their great celebration on Sunday in commemoration of Easter, and when Jewish Christians pretty much faded away, that was what Christianity was left with. But Christians still reckoned Sunday the first day.
And so do the various “seventh-day” sects. That’s why they’re called “seventh-day” (duh!).
The “change”, such as it is, is purely 20th-century, and there are still a good many of us who resist it on the simple and sensible grounds that it’s stupid and confusing to change a rule that’s existed for thousands of years.
John W. Kennedy
“Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.”
– Charles Williams
SHEESHE, Mr. Kennedy, you make some strong points, unfortunatly you’re wrong.
I won’t say you are all wrong, if you can tell me where “… the Bible makes it crystal clear that, to the Jews, Sunday was always the first day and Saturday was always the seventh day.” The Hebrews did not have names for the days of the week, “In Hebrew, the days of the week are simply numbered, except for the 7th,
which is the Sabbath (Shabbat).” ( http://www.friesian.com/week.htm ) They numbered from Sabbat to Sabbat, Sabbat (0), 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, Sabbat (7). Now don’t go saying that proves your point, that 1 = Sunday. I don’t remember the fancy Latin term, but that would be arguing from the conclusion, ‘The 7th day is Sabbat,. day one is Sunday, because Sabbat is Saturday, and Saturday is the 7th day.’ All we know is that the 7th day is Sabbat. Now here is where you are wrong. First read DS’s link, http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_166.html The seven day/seven planet week is also found in ancient India, Tibet, Japan, and Burma. Chances are the Hebrews brought it with them from Babylonia along with “their” Genisis legends. Either at their first leaving the area or on their first forced return there. Some ,including the Babylonians, began the week on “Sun’s day” (or whatever name they had for the god/“planet”) therefor Saturn’s day became 7. However, the Hebrews/Jews adopted the local calendar for civic/businaess purposes.
As for the Roman eight day week situation changing “… because of Christianity.” There you are wrong. Julius Caesar conquered Egypt in 48BC, The Egyptians were one of the 7 day people. Julius was interested in calandar reform anyway, consulted with Astrologer/mathematicians in Alexandria ,they devised the Julian calendar.
“Roman soldiers stationed in Egypt became accustomed to the pagan
seven-day week and began to introduce it into their own homeland to replace their eight-day marketing week. Octavian (Caesar Augustus) ( Emp. 27Bc-AD14) and succeeding Roman rulers permitted this practice but it wasn’t made
official until the emperor Constantine took that step in A.D. 321.”(Emphasis mine, mj) ( http://www.greenheart.com/billh/origin.html ) So, Irish, yor WAG wasn’t blarney after all. Modern, Christianity and Judaism follow a 7 day week because pagan Rome adopted a pagan Egyptian week, later on an Emporer, who happened to be Christian ,got around to making the 7 day week official, because every one was using it anyway. Not because it was the Christian thing to do.
I can’t find any scripture that says which day is the Sabbat, I find “keep the Sabbat”, “every seventh day”, etc. but nothing like 'Saturday is Sabbat" or “every Sunday” much less “the seventh day” or “the LAST day” of the week." To furthur mess it up ,in 1582 Pope Gregory changed the entire Julian calendar, October 5,1582 became October 15, 1582. A whole ‘seventh day’ just disappeared. Britain and the US to be ,didn’t get around to the Gregorian till 1752, and they had to jump 12 days. Add in the leap days and any correlation to any original DAY 1 is totally gone. I gotta agree with DS that the first day is totally arbitrary, sometime somewhere somebody said " Today is Saturday" For those who follow Sabbat, it seems you got to keep every 7th day holy, but is up to you and the local calendar to figure out which day is the seventh. HMMM, wonder if the boss would go for that? And there are all those leap days to account for, and those skipped days, too. Definate possibilities here. Any one wanta join mr john’s Seven Days Adventists?
“Pardon me while I have a strange interlude.” -Marx
Whoa! OK, quite an explanation…thank you. I just learned a little more than I was expecting but great. I love it.
Now as far as your wondering as to if Saturday should be Sabbat or not I can only offer this. Speaking Italian, the closest living language to latin, I find it interesting that the word for Saturday is sabbato (Sabbat)…while at the same time, Sunday is domenica (ever heard the latin word “dominae”?). It seems that either this was brought into the language as an accident, or Latin observs the Sabbat while making “domenica” the day of actual worship. After all, we’re not supposed to work on the Sabbath day, right? And worship can get pretty active sometimes!!! 
Ciao
I would also like to add that in Spanish Saturday is Sabado (or something to that extent excuse me for terrible typos and such) and Sunday is Domingo. These two also sound very similar to the Latin terms mentioned above.
Thanks for listening.
–Michael
Or would you rather talk about monkeys?
Mr. John said:
I thought that under the transition to the Gregorian calendar they changed the dates of the month but the day of the week was unaffected. In other words if Oct. 4, 1582 was a Thursday then the following day, Oct. 15 under the Gregorian reform, was a Friday [have no idea of what the actual days of the week they were- just using those for illustration]. Do you have any info suggesting that any days of the week were skipped?
This reference indicates that the Christian began observing Sunday rather early on - a couple of centuries before Constantine.
http://www.catholic.com/answers/tracts/_sabbath.htm
Note, by the way, the reference to Sunday as the “eighth” day.
Mr John says: << I can’t find any scripture that says which day is the Sabbat, I find " keep the Sabbat", “every seventh day”, etc. but nothing like 'Saturday is Sabbat" or “every Sunday” much less “the seventh day” or “the LAST day” of the week." >>
Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day and hallowed it, because on it God rested from all the work that he had done in creation.
The later references are clear that this seventh day is the Sabbath. Under the assumption that Jewish tradition (that is, counting from seventh day to seventh day) has continued uninterrupted at least from about 700 BC (arguably from 1000 BC or from 1250 BC, depending on when you think things were formalized) until present time, then the seventh day (the Sabbath) is the day that the English-speaking world calls Saturday and that the French-speaking world calls “samedi” and that the Spanish-speaking world calls sabado and… The non-Jewish world may have put other names to the days of the week around it, but it’s still the seventh day in the Jewish counting.
The Oxford Classical Dictionary says that the week was not generally observed by classical paganism except astrologically until the 3rd century or so; it says nothing of the Roman eight-day market “week” being discontinued by Julius Caesar. It does indicate that the seven-day week was beginning to make some inroads in the 3rd century, A.D., though, so Constantine didn’t do it all.
And you’re flat wrong about the Gregorian reform, which did not disturb the week at all. Here’s what happened in England:
September, 1752
S M T W T F S
1 2 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
For the rest, you’re quibbling wildly about words. “Seventh day” = “Jewish Sabbath” = “Saturday”, with no known historic break for thousands of years, and “First day” = “Christian weekly feast” = “Sunday” for the entire history of Christianity.
John W. Kennedy
“Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.”
– Charles Williams