[QUOTE=Jodi]
The definition of cheating defines it as “violation of rules or regulations.” This was a violation of rules and regulations and, thus, by very definition, was cheating. That’s really the end of the discussion.
[/QUOTE]
The problem with being this strict on the definition is that every single player in the league can be labeled a cheater. That’s not to say it isn’t an accurate label, but it’s surely not an interesting label.
There are times when people take liberties with the rules, or push to the very edge of the rules, and sometimes they go over. They’re not all cheaters. Or, if they are all cheaters, we need a new word that distinguishes the serious offenses from the normal game offenses.
And, Dio, as to your “where’s the theoretical competitive advantage?” question, you have not responded at all to the obvious higher value of having something on videotape as opposed to having the chance to see it only once live.
[QUOTE=Phase42]
(bolding mine)
It appears to me that the section I’ve bolded is the important part. I read this as meaning that a club is free to make videotape for the purpose of post-game analysis and future reference. What’s being disallowed is shooting video during a game to be analyzed and used later in the same game.
[/QUOTE]
It might just be more productive to provide a link to this post until certain posters choose to actually acknowledge it. It is a very clear and concise refutation of the idea that the Patriots “were not cheating”. They were.
Holy shit, y’all, did you know that the Giants won the Super Bowl? :eek:
And if I were a fan, I’d be mightily annoyed that this thread has devolved into yet another silly pissing match about the Patriots suxxors and the definition of cheating. Especially when there’s an entire other thread devoted to exactly that subject.
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever]
What, did you have a heaping cup of stupid this morning, or are you trying to be as obtuse as possible?
Sorry, I shouldn’t have called you stupid. I know you’re a smart guy, so I hope you understand why everyone is wondering why you’re making yourself out to be the complete retard that you aren’t .
[/QUOTE]
Speaking of “against the rules”…
Least Original User Name Ever, this is Cafe Society and not the Pit. Personal insults are not allowed here. If you want to vent, take it to the Pit.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Just because something is against the rules doesn’t mean it’s “Cheating.” I appear to be the only person on this board who knows anything about the game. It’s against the rules to wear black knee-socks on the field too, that doesn’t mean wearing black knee-socks is “cheating.”
It’s a childish, uneducated, sour grapes accusation.
[/QUOTE]
Wearing black socks that violate the rules isn’t being done to gain a competitive advantage.
If you think the Patriots weren’t engaged in the illegal filming for the purpose of gaining some competitive advantage, no matter how seemingly minor, you are simply being intentionally obtuse. Which, I think, is what everyone else here understands. While I’m not one to suggest that it’s the best strategy to follow the herd, sometimes when everyone has a contrary opinion, it might be a good idea to check the fundamental underpinnings of your own. :dubious:
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
There was no intent to cheat since there isn’t even a theoretical way to gain an unfair advantage by taping signals from the sideline.
[/QUOTE]
IF this was true, why would they continue to do what they had been told specifically to cease doing? So that they could get fined and lose draft picks for no good reason? Get real…
Ok, I’m gonna stop commenting on thread comments from hours ago. Probably not fair.
Wow, talk about missing out on an “interesting” discussion. I went down to D.C. to watch the game with some of my favorite Giants fans from back home. It was incredible. That game was the best Super Bowl finish in my memory (mainly because all the Giants fans in the room were concerned that Brady could pull off the 4th quarter finish).
To the Pats fans crying about poor officiating and an injured Brady, you should be ashamed. How many rings do you really need right now? The officiating was solid and injured QB’s cannot throw 60+ yds down the field with that level of accuracy. That pass to Moss at the end of the 4th was a laser to his hands. He got rattled by the MVP Giants D. Its just that simple.
Speaking of the defense, they really should have given the MVP to the entire Giants-D. They earned it.
I thought it was curious to see the Pats ignore the run completely. I thought Belichick would understand the value of pounding the ball at the D-line and wearing them out but he stuck with the passing game that earned me so many wonderful fantasy points throughout the season.
At the party we had a few Pats fans in attendance. They only yelled at their own team and when Brady got sacked, they looked shocked every time. At the end of the game they just congratulated us and admitted that it was an impressive game.
[QUOTE=garygnu]
This is wrong. The clock stops on out-of-bounds and stays stopped until the next snap throughout the game. If an official judges that the runner’s momentum was stopped in the field of play and was driven backwards out of bounds, the clock keeps running.
[/QUOTE]
Wrong, that was changed a few years back. You should read up on the new rules.
[QUOTE=SkipMagic]
Speaking of “against the rules”…
Least Original User Name Ever, this is Cafe Society and not the Pit. Personal insults are not allowed here. If you want to vent, take it to the Pit.
[/QUOTE]
I know. I apologized for it after I said it, but it really probably shouldn’t even have been said in the first place.
[QUOTE=SkipMagic]
Speaking of “against the rules”…
Least Original User Name Ever, this is Cafe Society and not the Pit. Personal insults are not allowed here. If you want to vent, take it to the Pit.
[/QUOTE]
I thought it was curious to see the Pats ignore the run completely. I thought Belichick would understand the value of pounding the ball at the D-line and wearing them out but he stuck with the passing game that earned me so many wonderful fantasy points throughout the season.
[/QUOTE]
As I recall it, the Patriots did go to Maroney several times in the first quarter and he couldn’t get much yardage. Nobody on the Pats’ offense got much yardage. It was the Giants’ defense that won the game.
Wow, what a great game! Definitely one of the greatest SBs ever. Miscellaneous points:
Only 2 teams have ever won after having to play 3 playoff games on the road, and both of them had… Plaxico Burress?! Good for him making the clinching catch yesterday after his completely ridiculous roasting by the media all week.
How lame was the postgame interview not calling Belichick out on what certainly appeared to be him fleeing the field before the game was over? I like to call him the Nixon of football; although the local columnist who calls him “Dr. Evil” has a nice ring, too.
Any Patriots fans into Jewish mysticism can console themselves by pondering the numerologic implications of their 18-1 record; 18 is the value of “chai”, which means “life” and is considered a very auspicious number, and 1 of course reminds of the Unity of God. So really, your record is very holy and you should be grateful to the Giants for helping you to acheive it. Hope this helps the healing process.
I can’t stand the whole “choking” meme; it disrespects not only the team who lost, but also devalues the accomplishment of the team who won. Fans who talk about “choking” reveal themselves to be bitter cynics looking to feel better about themselves by putting down people who in most cases have accomplished far more in their lives than said whiny fans ever will. I think real “choking” is virtually unknown at the professional level; athletes who consistently underperform under pressure simply don’t make it that far. So, congratulations to the Patriots for their incredible undefeated run, and to the Giants for stepping up huge when it counted.
Tom Petty?
Really, I mean… Tom Petty?
Not touching the whole spygate thing with a 10 foot pole, but the Patriots really didn’t lose this game because of those 36 yards of penalties.
Looking forward to discussing the Bears win next year.
[QUOTE=nivlac]
Or Steve Young’s “The Run” … about 1:12 into this video.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, wow… I can’t view it from work. Is that the run against the Vikings in 1988? I have always thought of that as the greatest play that nobody ever seems to mention in discussions of all-time great plays.
I don’t understand your disbelief. Paul McCartney and U2 have done the 'Bowl, so it must not be disbelief they got someone “that good.” But they’ve also had much worse. Tom Petty is exactly what I’d expect.
[QUOTE=Thing Fish]
Not touching the whole spygate thing with a 10 foot pole, but the Patriots really didn’t lose this game because of those 36 yards of penalties
[/QUOTE]
Brady was sacked five times, which had nothing to do with the refs. If you want to blame someone for the Patriots loss, blame the Giants defense!
[QUOTE=Thing Fish]
Oh, wow… I can’t view it from work. Is that the run against the Vikings in 1988? I have always thought of that as the greatest play that nobody ever seems to mention in discussions of all-time great plays.
[/QUOTE]
I still think that was the single greatest play I’ve ever seen, but it was a slow motion nightmare for Vikings fans at the time.
[QUOTE=cricetus]
I don’t understand your disbelief. Paul McCartney and U2 have done the 'Bowl, so it must not be disbelief they got someone “that good.” But they’ve also had much worse. Tom Petty is exactly what I’d expect.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I guess you’re right. I was being snarky. I’ve never seen the appeal of Mr. Petty, but I was surprised by how dull and listless his set was…only the last song seemed to even be attempting to be uptempo. Anyway, I guess there’s another thread for that.
