Supernatural experiences

[KGS]

@Princhester

What universe do you live in where this makes sense?

There is only one universe that I’m aware of. However, we all experience the universe differently, and what is significant to you may be mundane and useless to someone else. That is why nobody can ever agree on anything.

Carry on. I haven’t had such a good laugh in ages.

Aw man, whad’ja have to spoil it for?? I knew all along you had already made up your mind, but you were spinning quite a web of false interest that clearly deceived many people. But now, the jig is up, and everyone can see how closed your mind really is. 'Tis a shame, I was looking forward to this game.

P.S. If it’s any consolation, ghosts probably don’t believe in you, either.

[Princhester]

How can I take something seriously when you can say (apparently with a straight face although I can’t figure out how) that people who experience ghosts every day don’t know how to tell ghosts from non-ghosts, and you apparently know they’ve experienced ghosts but can’t tell me what you’d have to experience in order to experience one?

[Peter_Morris]

@Princhester

And **Peter **your position is no better. You tell me first that if “you see 100 movies you’ll get 100 different ideas of what a ghost actually is” which is (a) kind of my point and (b) have we admitted ghosts are fictional now? Then you say I should just “see the thing”? See what?

Oh, where to begin?

1 - No, it is not your point. You don’t actually have a point. You just resent even the idea of anything paranormal, and so you deliberately threadshit. Your repeated demands that someone define “a ghost” are just troublemaking. There is literally no answer to that which would satisfy you.

2 - Yes I admit that ghosts are fictional. there are many thousands of fictional works about ghosts. I never said otherwise.

3 - “see what?” I can’t believe you don’t understand that, its simple enough. See the movies I mentioned in the previous bloody sentence, obviously.

[Princhester]

@Peter_Morris

2 - Yes I admit that ghosts are fictional. there are many thousands of fictional works about ghosts. I never said otherwise.

If they are fictional why would I experience one?

3 - “see what?” I can’t believe you don’t understand that, its simple enough. See the movies I mentioned in the previous bloody sentence, obviously.

Which one of the “100 different ideas” would be the one I should look for? Or all of them? Or what?

[KGS]

@Princhester

How can I take something seriously when you can say (apparently with a straight face although I can’t figure out how) that people who experience ghosts every day don’t know how to tell ghosts from non-ghosts, and you apparently know they’ve experienced ghosts but can’t tell me what you’d have to experience in order to experience one?

Were you ever taking this discussion seriously? Don’t lie, because I already know the answer. I can tell by your aura.

All I can say is…if you ever directly encounter a ghost, you will know. It’s a profound experience. However, the first step is to accept the possibility that ghosts might exist. Until you do that, I can predict with absolute certainly that you will never directly encounter a ghost as long as you live…and if you do, you will automatically assume it’s either coincidence or a brainfart. (That’s not a very scientific attitude, by the way.)

[Peter_Morris]

@Princhester

Which one of the “100 different ideas” would be the one I should look for? Or all of them? Or what?

Why don’t you tell me? When you go to see a movie that features ghosts, what exactly do you expect a ghost to be? Please give me your definition. When you watch a movie and see a ghost, how exactly do you recognise it as being a ghost? Since it’s so important to you, then you should be able to answer.

[Jolly_Roger]

@Walker_in_Eternity

I really enjoy reading these threads, please don’t stop now.

I didn’t want to stop the thread. I just don’t it it derailed by Princhester’s demand that someone define a ghost. If he (or she I don’t know) doesn’t believe in anything paranormal thats fine. Thtas not a reason to derail this thread asking for what experiences people may have had.

Its easy enough to start a thread asking for someone to define a ghost rather than threadshit in this one.

[KGS]

@Jolly_Roger

I didn’t want to stop the thread. I just don’t it it derailed by Princhester’s demand that someone define a ghost.

Sadly, that’s often how these threads turn out. I’m actually surprised that Princhie’s flying solo on this one – usually it’s several JREFans ganging up on a solitary ghost-believer, not the other way 'round. Maybe we’re winning the fight against ignorance at last.

[Sailboat]

I don’t know – it seems to me that if I posted “I saw a mmphbnbm” you’d ask me “what’s a mmphbnbm?” If I replied “there are lots of different mmphbnbms, everyone experiences them differently,” your next logical question would be “give me some examples…” which leads to “what do those examples have in common that makes them all mmphbnbms?” and thus “how do you know a given experience is a mmphbnbm? what defines seeing a mmphbnbm?”

You may feel like he’s threadshitting, but I think it’s relevant to what we’re talking about here. Try thinking of it not as a trap (whether or not it is a trap) but as a legitimate inquiry – what does one person’s experience of a sudden chill and ominous shadow have in common with another person’s bookshelf flying off the wall that leads people to put both experiences into this thread, grouped together?

It seems to me that, even if it’s a struggle to think through, answering the question of why you (collectively, the posters who have replied in this thread) are classifying these experiences together will help us all understand what we’re discussing.

I know you perceive Princhester as an enemy, but there is a chance to fight ignorance here, if you care to do so.

Sailboat

[Peter_Morris]

If you think it’s a sensible question, then perhaps you would care to answer it.

I am thinking of a well known work of fiction that reputedly contains one or more ghosts. Tell me what a ghost is, so that I recognise it when I see it in the fictional work.

If the ghost in this work of fiction fails to match your definition does that indicate that:

1. your definition is wrong
2. the ghost isn’t really a ghost, but actually a different sort of entity
3. the author made a mistake
4. something else.

If Princhester’s question isn’t a stupid, pathetic threadshitting waste of time, then you should be able to answer it.

[fessie]

Is it too late to answer the OP? Because I did have an experience with a ghost.

Some orchestra friends and I were at a restaurant called The Country House, in Clarendon Hills (suburban Chicago). I didn’t know at the time that it was rumored to be haunted; our group just went there after rehearsals because we liked the food and it was open late.

Six years ago, just before Halloween in 2002, we were hanging out there as usual and talking about our plans for our upcoming Halloween-themed concert. All the musicians were going to wear costumes, I was doing some paintings, yadda yadda buncha details.

And I said something smart-alecky about ghosts. The President of the orchestra gave me a funny look, which I didn’t understand, and I said something else.

Now, we were there late, probably 10:30. So the place was almost empty - most of our group had left, I think there were just 4 of us remaining. And it was cold out, the windows were closed. I was sitting at a big round table, the rest of our group was at the adjacent table. And we were just sitting there, talking; no servers were running around. Very quiet.

As soon as I made my second snarky remark, the red bowl-shaped glass candle-holder in the middle of the table flew off to the left and landed on the floor, shattering.

There was no reason for that to have happened. Nobody walking. No wind. The table wasn’t wobbly, we checked afterward. I had my back to the kitchen door and the room was crowded with tables – if someone had been in the kitchen pulling strings, it would’ve taken a LOT of strings and some dollies to rig up an arrangement at that angle. We didn’t find anything.

Our waitress heard the shatter and came out from the kitchen. She was quite unsettled by the incident.

:scouts honor: that’s exactly what happened.

[manila]

can i add my weird story?

i was thirteen or fourteen. laying in bed on my back.

i heard somone clear their throat, i heard them spit. and i received a glob of foamy wet stuff right in my right eye.

i wasn’t scared or anything like that but totally non plussed.

i shouted out. mam did you just spit at me? ( she was in another room) at which she replied no dont be silly go to sleep.

i remember feeling totally puzzled ( not scared in the least) but a pure case of wtf?

now i certainly dont believe in ghosts, gods, hereafters tooth fairies or what like… but speaking to my sister years later she had stories of being dragged out of bed and her head banged against the radiator. ( my opinion is that she fell out of bed) but maybe there is some natural energy that we still dont know about?

maybe teenage hysterics…

[Jolly_Roger]

@Peter_Morris

If you think it’s a sensible question, then perhaps you would care to answer it.

I am thinking of a well known work of fiction that reputedly contains one or more ghosts. Tell me what a ghost is, so that I recognise it when I see it in the fictional work.

If the ghost in this work of fiction fails to match your definition does that indicate that:

1. your definition is wrong
2. the ghost isn’t really a ghost, but actually a different sort of entity
3. the author made a mistake
4. something else.

If Princhester’s question isn’t a stupid, pathetic threadshitting waste of time, then you should be able to answer it.

But the OP wasn’t “What is a ghost”. If you’re interested in defining it, then start another thread. The OP was about “what supernatural experiences have you had”. I can totally live with people not beliving in ghosts and thinking that people that do are delusional. But the thread here isn’t about that. So yes, coming here and then demanding people explain what they claim to have experienced is threadshitting. Thtas why I refuse to play the game with Princhester. He (or she) can start their own thread about it if it means that much. Or better yet…if you don’t think ghosts exist, why bother crapping in a thread for people that think maybe they do? Its a form of bullying, and its pathetic. especially when you don’t have to join the thread and if you want to debunk it you can start your own. Again: This thresad wasn’t made to dispute the existence or non-existence of ghosts.

[Peter_Morris]

@Jolly_Roger

But the OP wasn’t “What is a ghost”. If you’re interested in defining it, then start another thread.

I’m not interested in defining it. I’m pointing out how unreasonable and threadshitting the question is. The fact that Princhester (and Sailboat) refuses to answer his own question shows this.

[Contrapuntal]

@Jolly_Roger

But the OP wasn’t “What is a ghost”. If you’re interested in defining it, then start another thread. The OP was about “what supernatural experiences have you had”. I can totally live with people not beliving in ghosts and thinking that people that do are delusional. But the thread here isn’t about that. So yes, coming here and then demanding people explain what they claim to have experienced is threadshitting.

If they can’t define it, how do they know it’s supernatural?

[KGS]

@Contrapuntal

If they can’t define it, how do they know it’s supernatural?

The OP is asking for experiences which are perceived as supernatural. To cherrypick which experiences are real and which are imaginary is a subject that’s beyond the scope of this thread, and better suited for GD than MPSIMS.

[Contrapuntal]

@KGS

The OP is asking for experiences which are perceived as supernatural. To cherrypick which experiences are real and which are imaginary is a subject that’s beyond the scope of this thread, and better suited for GD than MPSIMS.

How does one differentiate between a perceived supernatural experience and a perceived natural experience *sans *definition?

It’s really a pointless question. I could claim that pushing a button in my car and having my garage door open is supernatural.

[Frustrated_Wonderer]

Dunno about Ghosts and all that.

But this one time I tried shrooms´…

Well let´s just say everything became supernatural for a couple of hours.

[KGS]

@Contrapuntal

It’s really a pointless question. I could claim that pushing a button in my car and having my garage door open is supernatural.

EXACTLY!

If you had no knowledge of how electricity and radio waves work, it would seem like magick to you.

If a Garage Door Skeptic asked you, “Why does your button open YOUR garage door, but not your next door neighbor’s?” you would be at a total loss to explain it.

“Supernatural” is really a meaningless term. Everything has a scientific explanation behind it, whether we understand that science or not. Therefore, everything is…natural. Gravity existed long before Newton “discovered” it. Germs existed long before Semmelwise theorized them. Even imagination itself has nature supporting it, in the form of brain cells firing in specific, defined patterns. What, exactly, are those patterns that create imagination? Nobody knows yet. But clearly, imagination DOES exist.

[Contrapuntal]

@KGS

EXACTLY!

If you had no knowledge of how electricity and radio waves work, it would seem like magick to you.

Gotcha! I don’t even *have *a garage!

Seriously, we agree completely on the supernatural. It doesn’t exist. Which makes the question in the OP truly pointless.