Then you won’t mind leaving. sorry to waste your time.
That’s really not for you to say. You might want to hop down off of that high horse.
Never had a paranormal experience. I would love to see a ghost, but it hasn’t happened. I wouldn’t even mind living in a haunted house, as long as the ghosts didn’t make it impossible to sleep at nights or get work done at home.
Just because you’ve never encountered a garage doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
If it’s any consolation, garages probably don’t believe in you, either. 
I hope it’s okay if I jump in and take a shot at this.
Ghost (n): the source behind a sensory impression that, the experiencing of which, will immediately and intuitively inform the observer that the cause is a ghost.
Uh…what?
My question was “can the person(s) claiming to have seen ghosts define what it is they saw that made them think it was a ghost?” Why would I, or Princhester, or the prince of Timbuktu have to answer that question, and what light could it shed? The only interesting thing is a better definition by the claimants.
Surely you can see that, and surely you can take it to the Pit if you want to make extraneous accusations. Right?
Sailboat
Yup, there have been reports (again, not necessarily TRUE, I haven’t heard a ghost story I believed yet) of feeling a little “resistance” when walking through them. And people who report being pushed occasionally speak of having a sort of “bad breath” taste in their mouth right after.
It has POTENTIAL to be a poltergeist, it, as a general rule, requires incidences happening repeatedly and is often (if not always) connected with unusually moving objects as well (i.e. a book flying out of the bookcase for no reason, doors slamming, cupboards inexplicably opening when no one is in the room, etc).
Manifestation is difficult, I actually knew that even if you would be satisfied with an explanation you’d have trouble with that one. Manifestation is basically anything that behaves similar to an apparition, but doesn’t necessarily take the humanoid form of one, and is oftentimes accompanied by a cold spot (obviously this doesn’t happen if it appears as an unusual reflection in a mirror).
Because you and Princhesterb are the ones insisting that it’s a reasonable question.
If you think the question is reasonable, then let’s hear your answer for it.
Just what Arthur Clarke said “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”.
While it may not be possible for those that believe they have had a “supernatural” experience to define it, the experience itself is still worthy of discussion.
If I had an experience of this kind I would want to discuss it to see what (if any) rational explanation might exist that I had not previously considered.
Asking people to define something that is, to them at least, is undefinable is just muddying the waters further.
Actually its my right to say it. I didn’t tell you to leave, I just implied that you wouldn’t mind leaving. You can naturally stay as long as you like. But this isn’t the pit, and theres little to be gained by jumping in just to call a thread pointless. If you think its pointless, why bother saying anything. Its not like you’re forced to read it.
My answer for what YOU decide is a ghost? You really want me to speak authoritatively for what goes on in your head? You sure you’re ready for that? Wouldn’t you prefer your version?
Sailboat
I just came back to this thread to apologize to Contrapuntal. I didn’t mean to come off as a jerk, I’m just dismayed to see this thread turn into a pissing contest. I’d very much like to hear about experiences people say they’ve had, and not argue over if ghosts are real or not. I think its disappointing that the thread has turned that way So for what its worth, I’m sorry if I was being a dick. I just don’t think we need to argue about what people believe here. We can always have another thread about that if some wish to debate the existence of the supernatural.
Obviously people can post what they want to say…they pays the money, its their keyboard. I only wish that its in the original purpose of the thread.
Well that just demonstrates it clearly, you are not asking a reasonable question and actually wanting an answer, you are deliberatly asking an unreasonable question with the intent of derailing the thread.
If by “imply” you meant “state outright,” yeah, you implied it. That’s a non-standard usage for “imply,” however.
I didn’t say the thread was pointless, I said the question was pointless. And exposing pointless questions that masquerade as legitimate inquiry is a *good *thing.
You consider it pointless, thats your opinion. You’re welcome to have it, as I can have mine. I guess you missed the post where I apologized for any offense. Either way I’m not interested in arguing over which opinion is right or pointless or whatever. This thread is already off track, so mission accomplished I guess.
You’ve made this logical error before. Not all opinions are equal. Some are just plain wrong. And asking someone to relate an experience with X when X is *undefined *and *undefineable *is pointless. Pretty much by definition. How can anyone claim to experience X when X can literally be anything? How can X be differentiated from Not X?
Thanks for apologizing, although I really wasn’t offended.
Well, the apology is there regardless, because as a rule I try to be civil and as polite as possible, even when I disagree with people. (sure there are times when I get riled up, but I don’t like to surly or angry or disagreeable.) I was a bit out of line and I’m sorry for it.
Perhaps not all opinions are equal. Perhaps not. Really, thats your opinion that they are not equal. I don’t think you or I are the judges of what opinions hold merit or not…except to ourselves. I have a non-favorable opinion about tattoos…and I’m unlikely to change it. But I don’t consider my opinion to be worth more than the guy with a dozen tattoos.
If there was thread where the OP was “tell me about your experiences with Angels” I think it would be wrong to go into the thread and say “Define it!” and “This is pointless because I don’t believe they exist!”. If someone wants to share an experience fine. If they want to debunk it or deny it out of hand, well it can’t be helped, but I think it would be better served if they just started their own thread about it instead of derailing the one going on. I honestly do not have any axe to grind with Princhester, but the reason I simply refused to play that game with him is because it derails this thread. There are many beliefs and opinions on this board that I don’t agree with, but I wouldn’t want to basically threadjack an OP to say it. You don’t think ghosts exist, and I can accept that. I just don’t think this thread is the place to debate it.
That’s a good definition for “supernatural”. In other words: “Anything that is beyond one’s current understanding of ‘natural’.”
No worries.
It is a trivial matter to demonstrate that not all opinions are equal. For example, I could be of the opinion that the world is flat. Or the sun is a giant mirror. Or that a particular race is sub-human. All of which would be wrong. And opinions to the contrary would be right. Making them unequal.
I swear I thought I had made this clear several times, but I’ll try again. I can have no belief either way about the existence of any entity, object, artifact, force, etc. that is *undefined *and undefineable. Imagine this conversation –
*Do you believe in X?
What is X?
Anything you say it is.
*
Now substitute “ghost” for X."
*Of course I do. I’m wearing a pair of ghosts on my feet right now. I had scrambled ghosts for breakfast. And today I’m taking my pet ghost to the vet for a rabies shot.
Those aren’t ghosts!
Oh they’re not? How do you know? How can anyone?
*
See the problem?
Yes, and that’s really the crux of it all. Encountering a ghost is a highly subjective experience – events that seem intensely personal and life-altering to one person, may seem trivial and pointless to everyone else. That’s what makes these experiences so difficult to “prove” to anyone else, especially skeptics.
For example…last night, I encountered a ghost. (Or “spirit”, if you like – I’m not sure if this particular spirit was ever human.) My computer, which was running idle, suddenly reboot itself, right at 3:11a.m. (the number is significant for personal reasons.) When it restarted, my speakers were filled with a loud, annoying crackling noise that refused to go away – I had to shut down and jiggle some wires around to fix it. After that, I received an email which on the surface appeared to be random spam…except, the message was filled with references which were VERY direct, including people and places and other things. The title of the email itself, in fact, was the name of my MMORPG character from long ago – which, coincidentally, was something I talked with my brother about the previous night.
Now…does all this “prove” anything? Of course not. On the surface, it’s a manifestation of extreme apophenia – patterns appearing in random data. It’s rarely this on-the-nose, but it does happen, and it doesn’t always mean there’s a ghost behind it. No, the kicker is that I felt this spirit’s presence; his bright green aura filled the room, and it was like he arranged this phenomena just to send me a message saying, “I am here.” It’s no more significant than that, although the emotional resonance was very profound.