Yeah, well, my VFW post is also filled with guys who served in Vietnam, and didn’t get a lot of gratitude coming back from that fiasco either.
Our government asked these guys clustered around a single bar in my community to fight on Iwo Jima, and fight in Vietnam, and fight in Iraq. One of our members was serving a nice safe shore duty here - she was killed in the Pentagon on 9/11. There’s a picture of her by the canteen door.
They asked me to serve in the Navy, and I never did anything very dangerous at all.
And yet you would dole out your gratitude solely on the basis of who fought in wars you approved of? Which actions you agreed with politically? When it was the actions of the government as a whole that sent us all on our various duties?
That’s mighty shallow. Mighty shallow. And while you’re not obligated to thank anyone, I think you ought to think about whether there is any substantial difference between those guys heading up Mount Suribachi, those fighting in Baghdad, and those like me who never really fought at all, just stood ready.
I can tell you that when I go to my VFW, these differences are so minor they recede to camp or sea stories, and we all just pal around. If they don’t matter to us, why do they matter to you?
In fact, civil service employees have started to complain that recent budgets did not include parity in raises between civilian and military pay. One example.Another.
But in any case, I give you, Mr Moto, and any other current or former service members my heartiest virtual Romulan salute… just so long as I don’t have to do it in person.
All my garbageman does is pick up my trash. I pay him very, very well for it. My husband, my father, my brother and all the other men and women in the military have done so much more for me than I could ever begin to fathom – if all I have to offer them is my gratitude, then so be it. I sincerely hope that the next time any of you who feel compelled to consider your trashman to be equal to our military are involved in any type of natural disaster, your garbageman is there to help you with food, shelter, clothing and all the other things that the men and women in the National Guard (which is a part of the military) would normally do. I hope that your garbageman does these things for you, as I don’t think you deserve shit from the military. I tried to keep my tone as pleasant as possible, but ignorance annoys me to no end – hence my membership on a message board whose purpose is “fighting ignorance.”
For those of you who believe that the military has done nothing for you and that no one in the military deserves your gratitude for volunteering for their job – please ask yourself how you will survive in the event of a catastrophic natural disaster or any kind of terrorist action and let me know exactly why someone who has volunteered to protect assholes like yourself – and who, because of their selflessness are sent to fight wars with which they may personally completely disagree – does not deserve gratitude?
As to the OP – I don’t know anything about this program, so I can’t say. I will say that it does make me a bit uncomfortable when people walk up to us in public when my husband is in uniform and thank him for his service. It makes me a bit uncomfortable when I mention my father and brother both retired USAF, and people thank me. I don’t think that gratitude necessarily needs to be voiced, but assholes who say that they don’t “owe” any gratitude to the military because they “pay taxes” is just that in my eyes – an asshole who really needs to pray that they never need the services of those people over whom they seem to feel some kind of completely misplaced superiority.
I was a bit young to have been spitting on Vietnam vets. Spitting up on them maybe.
But notwithstanding your palavar about your VFW buddies, my point, which seems to have sailed serenely over your head, is that “Does not feel grateful toward” does not equal “hate.” I think you understand that when the topic under discussion here is gratitude. And I think you understand that calling people who don’t feel gratitude toward military personnel “haters” is inflammatory. I think you understand these things, I just don’t think you care because you’re happier to dismiss us as “haters.”
Well, I’m lucky enough to have never been involved in a natural disaster. If I were, I would be glad for anyone who offered help - which I imagine would include more Red Cross and perhaps FEMA types than National Guard types.
Okay, I’ll bite: who are they protecting me from? Who have the military ever protected me from? I don’t mean the nebulous “the terrorists, of course!”, but actual, concrete examples of how I’ve been protected by the military.
And it’s not like members of the military are selflessly volunteering their time after their 9-to-5. They get paid - and they also get a uniform allowance, housing allowance, overseas pay if applicable, money towards college, etc. They volunteer to join the army the same way that my mother used to ‘volunteer’ as a teacher: the work might not be to everyone’s taste, I’ll be the first to admit I wouldn’t do it, but it’s not an unpaid sacrifice.
I don’t feel any superiority over members of the military, but I also don’t feel inferior to them (well, at least not on the basis of their military service).
I’m all for it, Sir. However, I generally voice my thanks when I see a service man or woman. I do not tread this earth with fear nor hate nor anything other emotion, aside from respect, for everyone I come across, until they do something to lose it.
Well spoken. Personally, I think if you’re too shy to just wave and say hi and generally just acknowledge some (like I already do with say cops, firemen, fellow motorcyclists, etc.) certain categories of people then it’s a little weird and probably too much to expect people to give out this “Romulan” salute. I can’t help but think there might sorta kinda maybe be an agenda hidden there somewhere.
It was one thing when I was in Germany in a heavy vehicle convoy slowly making our way down the street and all the kids would gather and wave and we’d toss out glow-sticks, candy & things but it would feel weird getting more than an understanding “thanks” from an adult, and I wouldn’t even expect that when I’m just going about my daily business.
I don’t think a lot of Americans understand what it’s like to live somewhere the military really is what’s standing between you and an invasion, though.
Ravenman, thanks for the cite, and fighting my ignorance. It is appreciated.
You can do any thing you please at your computer.
I just get really flustered when people try to thank me in person. I joined for my own selfish reasons, as well as patriotism and a desire to serve the nation. And whatever complaints I may have about my service, I have to say that I’ve gotten back far more than I ever expected.
I will agree that I do not feel any gratitude whatsoever towards the military. I don`t thank nurses and doctors and teachers whenever I see them walking around; I will thank them if they personally assist me. So next time an Iraqi militant attempts to kill me or someone I love, and a Marine shoots them in the face, I am sure I will thank him. Until then, I will hold off, thanks.
By the way, I know plenty people who are or have been in the military. These include my grandfather, three of my cousins, one of my uncles, a number of my friends and acquaintances, and an elderly Japanese man I teach English to (of course, he wasnt in the American military. I wonder if I should be thanking him as well, though? Its not about politics or your own opinion of the war, after all.) I find it hard to believe that any American is not acquainted with their own spectrum of such people, except perhaps those mythical Americans who have never heard of Jesus and need to be acqainted with him. I hear they live somewhere.
My take is that this is an election year. These slick productions only seem to get trotted out during election years as an end-run around campaign spending/contribution limits. The baby Karl Rove smiles at them. Thats my take on it.
My job has brought me into contact with military personnel from many different countries. In general I respect their service, unless there is a reason that I shouldn’t for a particular servicemember.
I was fortunate enough to witness a wreath-laying ceremony at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier a few years back - the person laying the wreath was the chief of staff of the Argentine armed forces. I stood at the appropriate times, maintained my silence, and remained on my feet through all twelve minutes of the Argentine national anthem. And I did this mindful of the nasty things the Argentine military has done in the past.
Doesn’t matter - there is a time for gratitude and protocol and a time for protest - and wise people keep these things separate in their heads.
What do you think it means? It means there are millions of Americans who have served in various branches of the armed forces over the years, and it is unrealistic to expect that there are many Americans who are not aquainted with any member of the military. My family is a bunch of liberal commies and we still know plenty of military people. I connected this with the other claim of certain fundamentalist Christians, which is that there are some Americans who are not acquainted with the teachings of Jesus or Christianity and thus need to be informed via door to door witnessing. I suggested that both ideas were, in my opinion, misinformed. I then made a sarcastic remark at the end of my post implying this.
