Sweeny Todd - has anyone seen it yet?

Cafe Society
21

[QUOTE=Eyebrows 0f Doom]
I was very impressed with Toby’s singing! This was the first time that the character has actually been played by a boy, rather than a boyish looking adult (Ken Jennings was 32 when he played Toby in the original!) and I was afraid of what might result, but he really does have an impressive voice.
[/QUOTE]

I think you are referring to Anthony, the sailor who courts Joanna, not Toby, Pirelli’s assistant. If I’m misinterpreting you let me know. My following comments are about the character Anthony, the sailor.

This was one strength of the movie which I feel surpasses what has been done on stage. Although in film young characters are often played by actors who are older, on stage this is the case even more so with greater disparity.

I went in to see the new film already very familiar with the filmed stage version from 1982 that has run on PBS starring Angela Lansbury and George Hearn. In that production, Anthony is played, as you’ve noted, by a “boyish looking adult” (in this case a 34 year old at the time). I have always hated every moment Anthony was on stage. He speaks dialog and sings lyrics that may make sense coming from a 19 year old, yet are laughable and even nauseating coming from a man who is clearly a man in his thirties. And the explanation that the character is meant to be younger little aids me in my suspension of disbelief when the portrayal is simply way off base.

In the film we were treated to an earnest, vulnerable, idealistic, honest Anthony. This is an Anthony who we can accept falling in love too easily, an Anthony who sees a black and white world of right and wrong with a naive expectation of a happy ending. We can accept it because he looks 19, he doesn’t look 34.

The great reward in this, for me personally, is that watching the film I was for the first time able to LOVE the song “Joanna”. This is a song that has always made me sick to my stomach because I’ve never seen an honest, tender, vulnerable performance. The performance in the movie was beautiful. It was beautiful because is was not so much about Joanna as it was about being 19 and in love, and they nailed it.

22

It did fairly well at the box office this weekend, considering that so many people are traveling, or shopping, or staying home due to weather. Some are fretting that there was a plunge in the box office between Friday and Saturday, possibly indicating that word of mouth among Burton and/or Depp fans was bad. Or maybe it was just the shopping or snowstorms.

This is from Box Office Guru:

23

On the other hand, National Treasure 2 and the chipmunks movie both did spectacular business from people who were NOT traveling, shopping, or being scared away by snowstorms. Sigh.

24

[QUOTE=bienville]
The great reward in this, for me personally, is that watching the film I was for the first time able to LOVE the song “Joanna”. This is a song that has always made me sick to my stomach because I’ve never seen an honest, tender, vulnerable performance. The performance in the movie was beautiful. It was beautiful because is was not so much about Joanna as it was about being 19 and in love, and they nailed it.
[/QUOTE]

I absolutely loved his performance, and having not been exposed to the stage performances, I would not have known that they didn’t intend for a young 19 year old to sing these songs. The only thing that really changed the performance for me was that the actor looks quite a bit like a friend of mine, who, although he’s boyish-looking, says some of the dirtiest things imaginable; I kept waiting for him to say something out of character to make that doe-eyed face seem less young and innocent.

25

[QUOTE=bienville]
I think you are referring to Anthony, the sailor who courts Joanna, not Toby, Pirelli’s assistant. If I’m misinterpreting you let me know. My following comments are about the character Anthony, the sailor.

[/QUOTE]

No I meant Toby, though what you say is true for Anthony as well. In the original 1979 Broadway production Anthony was played by Victor Garber, who was 30 at the time (which means that in that production, the actor playing Toby was actually *older *than the actor playing Anthony.)

[QUOTE=bienville]
The great reward in this, for me personally, is that watching the film I was for the first time able to LOVE the song “Joanna”. This is a song that has always made me sick to my stomach because I’ve never seen an honest, tender, vulnerable performance. The performance in the movie was beautiful. It was beautiful because is was not so much about Joanna as it was about being 19 and in love, and they nailed it.
[/quote]

Yeah, I did like “Johanna” in this version, as it became age-appropriate, though I’m biased in my favorites since an actor that I know performed the role on stage and I still think his version is the best.

(He performed the role at the Kennedy Center but this clip was taped at a small cabaret show in NYC.)

26

[QUOTE=Equipoise]
On the other hand, National Treasure 2 and the chipmunks movie both did spectacular business from people who were NOT traveling, shopping, or being scared away by snowstorms. Sigh.
[/QUOTE]

I think the opening weekend is going to be considered a disappointment. We’ll see how it holds up over the next few weeks.

27

[QUOTE=VernWinterbottom]
I don’t think that very many Sweeney Todd fans will be disappointed with the film.
[/QUOTE]
There are several lengthy posts in this thread that may be of interest to you.

28

I read them, Cervaise.

You’re entitled to your opinions.

I didn’t say NO Sweeney Todd fans will be disappointed. I’m sure some will be. There is no satisfying everyone. Ever.

I was with four other Sweeney fans, a couple of whom have seen it as many as a dozen different productions of the show over the last 25 years.

All five of us loved it.

29

[QUOTE=VernWinterbottom]
All five of us loved it.
[/QUOTE]

As did Cervaise (I thought you said you’d read that thread?); as did I, who was also disappointed in Burton’s choice to jettison the play’s subtext and focus instead entirely on the literal story. Luckily, he did so as well as he’s done anything; it might be his best movie. Sad, though, that it could have been ever more than that.

30

I understand, lissener, that you and Cervaise both had overlapping mixed feelings or somesuch. You both thought it was a great Tim Burton film, etc., but Cervaise did say this, and I quote:

**"As a Tim Burton movie, it’s brilliant. Easily one of his best films.

As an adaptation of Sondheim’s musical, it’s terrible. A failure on virtually every level."**
I’m sorry I didn’t interpret that as loving it. . .

31

[QUOTE=Marley23]
I think the opening weekend is going to be considered a disappointment. We’ll see how it holds up over the next few weeks.
[/QUOTE]

It’s in limited release, however. Wide-release comes January 11.

Damn teases! I’ll probably have to wait three weeks to get my Sweeny on!

32

[QUOTE=Eyebrows 0f Doom]
Yeah, I did like “Johanna” in this version, as it became age-appropriate, though I’m biased in my favorites since an actor that I know performed the role on stage and I still think his version is the best.

[/QUOTE]

Damn that’s a gorgeous voice (the actor too for that matter).

Saw the movie and didn’t much care for it, but then I didn’t like the stage show either. Best moments were By the Sea (as said above, if only for Depp’s morose expressions throughout) and the reprise of Johanna twixt Anthony and Sweeney, but I just don’t care for the plot or the music, and some of my favorite bits (“Attend the tale of Sweeney Todd…”) were cut.

I hated Depp’s Pepe Le Pieu hair and the makeup throughout- it was way too theatrical (and Burtonish) for a movie that otherwise uses realistic sets. It’s typical OTT Burton, like the house in Willie Wonka (even within fantasy you need some realism).

Other than that, on the whole I think most of my problems are with Sondheim’s show itself. It’s not that it’s dark and I even like the irony/contrast of sweet songs and cut throats by a man committing mass murder while seeking revenge for a moral wrong [and yes, I know that Sweeney has no pretenses of morality by the end].) But the play just never really worked for me.

I agree that it was nice seeing Johanna and Anthony played by age appropriate actors. Helena’s suitably deranged (though I still don’t understand how or why a woman who hasn’t had a customer in weeks would or could stay in the meat pie business). Rickman was, not surprisingly, perfect as the slimey lecher (though in the film as in the stage show I never figured out how Turpin and the Beadle couldn’t add up “he’s a barber and he’s in business in the same place as the barber who looked a lot like him that we had deported so we could abuse his wife and who if he ever returned would surely not be someone we’d trust near our throats with a razor” coincidences). Timothy Spall is the best sleazey toadey stock character actor in the business.

I like Depp’s singing- the “natural” as opposed to train quality actually works for the character- and save for the attrocious makeup I like that you can believe he rumples Lovett’s sheets and probably without ever changing expression. (I know there’s some debate among Todd fans as to whether her “rumpled sheets” are hypothetical or real, but I always assumed they were lovers, just without the love on Sweeney’s part.)

Anyway, if you liked the stage show I think you’ll like this and if not you won’t. No interest in seeing it again or owning the DVD.

33

[QUOTE=VernWinterbottom]
I understand, lissener, that you and Cervaise both had overlapping mixed feelings or somesuch. You both thought it was a great Tim Burton film, etc., but Cervaise did say this, and I quote:

**"As a Tim Burton movie, it’s brilliant. Easily one of his best films.

As an adaptation of Sondheim’s musical, it’s terrible. A failure on virtually every level."**
I’m sorry I didn’t interpret that as loving it. . .
[/QUOTE]

Ah. Comprehension problems.

34

Some people take their black humour seriously!

35

[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog]
Some people take their black humour seriously!
[/QUOTE]

I guess that potted meat business didn’t work out for them.

PS- I love the HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL google ads. Nice images of Zac Efron and Vanessa Hudgens singing merrily while stuffing gym teachers and cheerleaders into meatloaf pans.

36

I’m trying to puzzle out the reasoning behind the previews attached to the film.

When I took Thing 2 to see the film (she’s been a Depp fan since she was about eight) we were treated to two trailers for romantic comedies, some hip-hop dance film, and an anti-war movie.

What is the demographic for this film, anyway?

(Oh, we enjoyed the film a lot. I saw Sweeney on Broadway back in the Len Cariou day, and I had always carried an image of Sweeney as being large and brutal. Depp playing him as small and vicious worked well.
However, I don’t think wossername played Mrs Lovett quite right. She is too young, and I didn’t pick up the feeling of a slattern from her, although she projected barking mad quite well.
And Anthony was prettier than Johanna.)

37

PS- Meant to mention that I thought Epiphany was by far the film’s weakest moment and easily docked it a letter grade. No idea if the fault was Depp’s or Burton’s, but for effect it’d be like recasting Joe Pesci’s character from Goodfellas/Casino with Bob Newhart.

A Short Comparison of 4 Epiphanies:

90 Second Synopsis

For a Longer Comparison:

George Hearn (the former Mrs. Dixie Carter) middle aged with La Lansbury and older with La Lupone

Len Cariou (terrible video)

1:06 video of Depp recording Epiphany from the movie

38

[QUOTE=Sampiro]
PS- Meant to mention that I thought Epiphany was by far the film’s weakest moment and easily docked it a letter grade. No idea if the fault was Depp’s or Burton’s, but for effect it’d be like recasting Joe Pesci’s character from Goodfellas/Casino with Bob Newhart.

A Short Comparison of 4 Epiphanies:

90 Second Synopsis

For a Longer Comparison:

George Hearn (the former Mrs. Dixie Carter) middle aged with La Lansbury and older with La Lupone

Len Cariou (terrible video)

1:06 video of Depp recording Epiphany from the movie
[/QUOTE]
I’d agree. Cariou’s is the best, IMHO; Hearn seems a little forced.

39

[QUOTE=lissener]
I’d agree. Cariou’s is the best, IMHO; Hearn seems a little forced.
[/QUOTE]

I agree with that. Cariou is my favorite by far, though I really like Brian Stokes Mitchell’s performance as well. (He played Sweeney at the Kennedy Center production I mentioned in my previous post.)
Epiphany - Brian Stokes Mitchell

[QUOTE=Sampiro]
Damn that’s a gorgeous voice (the actor too for that matter).
[/QUOTE]

Isn’t it just? Plus he’s one of the sweetest guys I know, just a truly great person all around.

40

[QUOTE=Eyebrows 0f Doom]
Epiphany - Brian Stokes Mitchell

[/QUOTE]

Winner. Hands down. Unhinged but means it, and those eyes. (Twixt Coalhouse, Don Quixote, and Sweeney, his characters catch hell with the women in their lives.)